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Just now, The People's Hero said:

All of which was spot on. You forgot to say that bit!

 

Its all linked to insurance mate. Us insurance people make the world go round! 

Wasn’t questioning the validity mate! lol 

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2 hours ago, Stadt said:

Tested positive, had all of the symptoms bar the coughing. The worst thing is random shooting aches in my bones 

Sounds rough mate, hope you feel better soon.

 

Do you have any idea where you might have picked it up? IIRC, you're a student in Sheffield - I've heard the cases in uni accommodation round here are rising sharply?

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8 minutes ago, Manini said:

Wasn’t questioning the validity mate! lol 

Like I said mate; its all about insurance!

 

We've seen a huge downturn in enquiries and take up and part of the reality is that enterprise is at an all time low and insureds (where they are trading) are opting to retain their own risk.

 

Excellent. 

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18 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

Like I said mate; its all about insurance!

 

We've seen a huge downturn in enquiries and take up and part of the reality is that enterprise is at an all time low and insureds (where they are trading) are opting to retain their own risk.

 

Excellent. 

Any sector in particular or across the board? My firm seems to have guarded against a 2nd lockdown down, used the first one to stick a few people on furlough but everyone is back now and we seem like we’d be in a good place to continue BAU if there was another hard wave of restrictions. We’re a consultancy though so everything we do is governed by what work our clients give to us, so if they all get cold feet we’d be ****ed I guess. 

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A random bloke stopped me in the street the other day and started ranting about how its a big Government plan to keep locking down, so the small businesses go out of business and we become a cashless society..:ph34r:

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2 minutes ago, Ollie93 said:

A random bloke stopped me in the street the other day and started ranting about how its a big Government plan to keep locking down, so the small businesses go out of business and we become a cashless society..:ph34r:

Did you ask him if he's a regular on this thread? lol

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3 minutes ago, Ollie93 said:

lol It did make me wonder if there is a bigger picture we all all blind too.

I’ve never been a conspiracy theorist but some of the ineptitude on show during the last few months as got me wondering 😉

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1 hour ago, MonmoreStef said:

I’ve never been a conspiracy theorist but some of the ineptitude on show during the last few months as got me wondering 😉

Hanlon's Razor:  Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

 

There's plenty of stupidity to go round!

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2 hours ago, egg_fried_rice said:

Sounds rough mate, hope you feel better soon.

 

Do you have any idea where you might have picked it up? IIRC, you're a student in Sheffield - I've heard the cases in uni accommodation round here are rising sharply?

I’m not in Sheffield anymore but visited over the weekend. Went to multiple pubs and Hallam FC where it was pretty busy and there wasn’t much social distancing in the terrace there. 

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1600 students in Newcastle have tested positive for covid. Could it be a unintended litmus test for herd immunity theory in a few weeks?

Edited by Nalis
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48 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

Looking at excess deaths is flawed as well because much of that is as, if not more, likely down to cancer cases not being caught early enough because of lockdown measures and general fear.

 

Did you deliberately set out to debase your argument with this pure, unadulterated drivel?

 

Even untreated, all but the most agressive (also tend to be the most rare) or undiagnosed very latest stage cancers, will take much longer to kill you than the time between lockdown and the spike in excess deaths.

 

Maybe excess deaths will be higher in the future due to untreated cancer as a result of Vivid, but to apportion the excess deaths we saw to cancer as much as Covid only really serves as evidence that you'll say whatever pops into your head to explain away Covid, regardless whether it makes any sense or not.

 

Really you'd be better served going with the argument that the burden of those deaths is lower than the burden to the rest of society rather than pretending they don't exist. A perfectly valid position.

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3 hours ago, Manini said:

Any sector in particular or across the board? My firm seems to have guarded against a 2nd lockdown down, used the first one to stick a few people on furlough but everyone is back now and we seem like we’d be in a good place to continue BAU if there was another hard wave of restrictions. We’re a consultancy though so everything we do is governed by what work our clients give to us, so if they all get cold feet we’d be ****ed I guess. 

Varies by brokers; the very obvious are the hospitality sector, including hotels, nightclubs, pubs and bars (in fact some insurance brokers to those specific industries are understandably lobbying Govt).

 

But then there are the small companies who might be involved in the trades... which are again reliant on being 'onsite' whether on site or in people's homes. To an extent this trade is booming but in reality its only sections of it.

 

But overall just think about any commercial venture which has overheads and staffing costs and is independent (read: not a chain with a big credit line or cash reserves) and therefore is answerable not to shareholders or fund managers or whatever but answerable to the simple law of living within their own means.

 

Those Government words about 'not being able to save every company and every job' serve to point out a fairly obvious point. Companies always fail and should in most instances be allowed to fail, since its the survival of the fittest and new energy and new companies emerge in their place, but this is entirely systemic and vast swathes of independent companies are going to face major difficulties. Some might just battle through, making no money because they feel they owe it to the staff, but you suspect a great deal who have taken advantage and some who have 'taken advantage' of furlough (and or the loans) might think 'stuff it'.

 

 

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@Nod.E  If I'd wanted to use a high figure because it was convenient to my argument, I'd have used the excess deaths figure as that's higher.

Meanwhile, without a hint of irony, you dismiss both figures and declare that the real figure is actually "miniscule" - conveniently for your argument - without presenting any figure whatsoever. lol

 

Yes, a small number of those "Covid deaths" will be people who died or would have died of other causes anyway.

There will also be an unknown number of people whose deaths were put down to other causes but Covid actually killed them or played a part.

But I've no interest in fixating on precise figures. It's clear that a lot of people have died or are suffering health damage from Covid.....and the risk is that number could greatly increase if we're not careful.

 

It's a fair point that some of the excess deaths will be cancers that might have been treated if caught earlier - and messaging needs to ensure that people aren't scared into not going for tests if they experience symptoms of cancer or heart etc.

But a lot of people will have missed such diagnoses because of hospitals being over-run with Covid patients in the spring - either because doctors/facilities were swamped or because patients were scared of infection at hospital.

If we adopt a lax approach and allow that to happen again, even with improved treatment we risk a repeat of that, which in turn risks more excess deaths from cancer, stroke, heart or whatever.

 

I'm not some hawk advocating a strict lockdown and am well aware of the damage that can be caused through untreated cancer, mental health problems, unemployment etc. 

A balance is needed. I just think this virus is clearly very dangerous, lives are valuable and it is irresponsible to downplay its seriousness or to be reckless about just living with it or whatever.

 

The politest way I can reply to your comments about Long Covid is to suggest that anyone with an open mind who wants to find out about it should Google it - plenty of different online sources to compare and judge.

But it's an aspect of this crisis that has been seriously under-reported by the media - and many of those affected are young people and those who had a mild Covid infection, not just those who were elderly or ended up in ICU.

 

Enough! Most of this has been argued through multiple times so I'm not wasting any more time on it, unless new issues are raised.

 

p.s. I've not caused you a "horrible bastard" once. Neither have I suggested that your views are "bollocks" or make you a "sanctimonious tool". lol

 

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10 minutes ago, Nalis said:

1600 students in Newcastle have tested positive for covid. Could it be a unintended litmus test for herd immunity theory in a few weeks?

Similar thought occurred to me last week - these outbreaks in the universities within the UK should be used to collect important data in the same way some villages and same towns were in Italy during the first wave. 

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2 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Similar thought occurred to me last week - these outbreaks in the universities within the UK should be used to collect important data in the same way some villages and same towns were in Italy during the first wave. 

Furthermore, that data should be catalogued in excel... ah.

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17 minutes ago, Nalis said:

1600 students in Newcastle have tested positive for covid. Could it be a unintended litmus test for herd immunity theory in a few weeks?

How many have also tested positive for chlamydia?

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I'd be interested to know what measures certain people in this thread will be happy with currently? I don't want to call people pro-lockdown because I don't think anyone is, but some obviously want stricter restrictions? And also would anyone who has these views be affected by a stricter measures? It's easy to be pro something if you're job is safe regardless and can work from home easily. 

 

Hospitality was always going to be first to be traded off, it was said in the summer that if cases rose when education returned that pubs could close. It's pretty obvious that university students are playing a pretty big part currently, either in their living conditions or the fact they go out partying. I'd be interested to know how strict student bars have been? 

 

If they're is evidence about hospitality venues being a concern then they're right to close them, rather than that an half hearted attempt like the curfew. It's a shame for the many hospitality industries where the risk is low because of their location or the fact they are following the rules.

 

Personally, allowing households to mix together with a limit of 10 or maybe a couple less would help a lot of people. Especially if other businesses are closed. I'd like my parents to be able to stay over at ours and see their grandson. My boy has his 4th birthday coming up but under current rules noone can come and see him. it's up to individual families to decide if they want to risk certain family members in this situation. 

 

Unless everything is locked down, you're always going to get "why can't I do this, if im allowed to do that" arguments. 

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Lockdown for some = no change

Lockdown for some = new way of working

Lockdown for some = 3 months relaxing with the family safe at home venturing out to cheer for those that found that lockdown = no change.

Will the next lockdown be any different for those people that just had to carry on as normal.

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56 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

p.s. I've not caused you a "horrible bastard" once. Neither have I suggested that your views are "bollocks" or make you a "sanctimonious tool". lol

 

I would, but I'd get another ban :ph34r:

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13 hours ago, Pliskin said:

Correct, however, the government sloppy initial reaction will forever mean they will essentially jump from one knee jerk reaction to the next. I won’t be at all surprised if they force the pubs, restaurants and indoor sports facilities to close once again. 

The 2 weeks after they reopen, we'll be encouraged to go out & offered vouchers.

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