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2 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

I think the reliance on the result of the test has to be questioned.  I've thought this for a while.

 

Also the govt just taking carte blanche a positive result as a case is also short sighted.

Yes, it identifies more false positives than false negatives, but we need a system to pick up those with the virus.

 

We struggle to test those in need once, we can't start testing 2 or 3 times to rule out false positives. 

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1 hour ago, Cardiff_Fox said:


Said before you can’t blame the current govt for the tough decisions they face but bloody hell, the lack of competence is terrifying. 

Communication is everything right now and this is just shocking to be honest. I can understand the Minister is under lots of pressure and no doubt in back to back meetings all day long, but this is why they have teams of people supporting them. Why aren't the civil servants taking initiative here in scheduling these meetings in good time, and why hasn't the Minister got a handle on his department to ensure things like this aren't happening time and time again.  

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On 07/10/2020 at 20:03, FoxesDeb said:

Can you provide a comparison between us and a similar country? Because the population density and demographic of Sweden is vastly different, so different I'm not even sure why you would compare the two? Besides, it's well documented that they have also had restrictions, just their population hasn't been whining and bleating about them, they have just accepted it and got on with it

 

22 hours ago, FoxesDeb said:

Please can you show me where I said 'people only have mental health issues due to Facebook and Twitter'? Clearly you have never read any of my posts on the Depression thread...

@joachim1965 I'm still waiting :whistle:

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1 hour ago, Izzy said:

Said the same on the politics thread half hour ago. A bit of pride in ones appearance and some personal grooming wouldn’t go amiss. Some may argue it’s difficult to take his message seriously if he can’t take himself seriously. 


Could be worse Muzzett ...   he could have red hair ...     Yuk !!! ...    :blink:

 

 

93EF277C-39A8-4CAA-B937-11734B5FC4D9.jpeg

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On 10/10/2020 at 10:21, Harrydc said:

What's really annoying me is how many people are blaming the students in Nottingham. 

 

It's funny, because if they don't get tested then it's really not an issue, because no one is dying FROM (not with ) Coronavirus in Nottingham. So, I'll say it again, more tests mean more positive cases. It's not difficult to comprehend. People are so fearful of each other, policing each other and I don't like the road were going down. Covid doesnt scare me, but the world we are living in does. 

This in a nutshell. The cure is worse than the disease. It's despicable.

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More headshaking at what is being said at this press conference over here.

 

Adamant the drop in the virus was due to the lockdown (the downwards curve started before the lockdown did) and adamant that cases in the 10-19 age group are pretty much solely down to those not of school age (show us the breakdown of the data then rather than a decade's worth of ages in one block).

 

 

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Billions and billions of extra support for businesses in restricted areas until at least next spring. The financial cost of this pandemic is eye watering and I dread to think how many decades it will take to pay it all back. Nightmare. 

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5 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Billions and billions of extra support for businesses in restricted areas until at least next spring. The financial cost of this pandemic is eye watering and I dread to think how many decades it will take to pay it all back. Nightmare. 

Who will we owe it to? I'm confused with those figures and how they are even possible. 

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The Gov are recording all deaths as Covid where there was a previous positive Covid test, whatever the actual cause of death. That, to me doesn't make sense. Someone could die in a car crash or suicide but if they had tested positive for Covid, it's recorded as a Covid related death. Nonsense. How can we possibly believe the figures when this is the case?

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7 minutes ago, Parafox said:

The Gov are recording all deaths as Covid where there was a previous positive Covid test, whatever the actual cause of death. That, to me doesn't make sense. Someone could die in a car crash or suicide but if they had tested positive for Covid, it's recorded as a Covid related death. Nonsense. How can we possibly believe the figures when this is the case?

 

This is root of the problem.

 

The data.

 

It all stems from the testing.  The data is then represented in various ways to show ridiculous predictions (or "worst case scenarios") and is used to be as visually impactful as possible.  Today's graphs were more of the same.  People should note the scaling on the y axis, rather than the curves themselves.

 

They're still banging on about the lockdown reducing numbers, when the lockdown was introduced after the epidemic peak.  If that is the narrative from the outset, then lockdown measures, restrictions etc. will be a forever constant until the data isn't there.

 

This tinkering with the restrictions, tier 1, 2, 3, stage 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or whatever will never disappear until a vaccine arrives.

 

We're in a constant revolving circle of never ending restrictions until then.

Edited by Legend_in_blue
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17 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Billions and billions of extra support for businesses in restricted areas until at least next spring. The financial cost of this pandemic is eye watering and I dread to think how many decades it will take to pay it all back. Nightmare. 

The hope is that we spread it over generations as hitting this generation will be a economic disaster and unfair to us who have paid debts from the past as is.

 

I've mentioned it on another thread but it took Germany 91 years to pay WW1 debt and it took 61 years for the UK to pay WW2 debt.

 

We'll see the pursestrings tightening but I'm not massively worried on what the government do in the short term, regardless of what party is in power.

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6 minutes ago, Parafox said:

The Gov are recording all deaths as Covid where there was a previous positive Covid test, whatever the actual cause of death. That, to me doesn't make sense. Someone could die in a car crash or suicide but if they had tested positive for Covid, it's recorded as a Covid related death. Nonsense. How can we possibly believe the figures when this is the case?

What is changing?

Two new deaths indicators will now be used by all four nations in the UK to provide a full picture of both recent trends and the longer-term burden of the disease.

The additional indicators which will be used to calculate daily death figures are:

  • the number of deaths in people with COVID-19 that occur within 28 days of a first positive laboratory-confirmed test. This is intended to provide a headline indicator of the immediate impact of recent epidemic activity. Deaths that occur more than 28 days after a positive test will not be included in this count.
  • the number of deaths that occur within 60 days of a first positive test. Deaths that occur after 60 days will also be added to this figure if COVID-19 appears on the death certificate. This will provide a more complete measure of the burden of the disease over time.

Using these new measures, the total number of deaths in people with laboratory-confirmed infection is reduced by 5,377  if only deaths within 28-day of a test are included, and by 1,668 if including only deaths within 60 days or at any time with COVID-19 mentioned on the death certificate.

This approach has been peer reviewed by external statistical experts.

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6 minutes ago, Parafox said:

The Gov are recording all deaths as Covid where there was a previous positive Covid test, whatever the actual cause of death. That, to me doesn't make sense. Someone could die in a car crash or suicide but if they had tested positive for Covid, it's recorded as a Covid related death. Nonsense. How can we possibly believe the figures when this is the case?

This has been the problem for several weeks, maybe months, and somewhat negatively manipulates the figures.

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9 minutes ago, Parafox said:

The Gov are recording all deaths as Covid where there was a previous positive Covid test, whatever the actual cause of death. That, to me doesn't make sense. Someone could die in a car crash or suicide but if they had tested positive for Covid, it's recorded as a Covid related death. Nonsense. How can we possibly believe the figures when this is the case?

I think the best policy is to just let them get on with it, when you start listening to the media and politicians who all seem a bit Diane Abbotty and confuse themselves with numbers, it’s certainly better for your sanity. When they went from deaths on a graph to cases on a graph, that was the real nail in the coffin. Deaths are what counts, we don’t need to know the rest as it’s pointless information for the layman. What counts is if you know you’ve got it then stay at home and keep your head down till you get better, there’s really nothing else to do apart from pray you don’t take a turn for the worse, and if you do, there’s not a lot you can do about it and you’re in the hands of someone who knows what they’re doing. You’re better off sitting down and watching Man City or Southampton  v Leicester a few times, the numbers are similar, but it’s far more fun.
 

Edited by yorkie1999
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Please God can we have an investigation into how many people have had a positive Covid test and then died in a car crash / hit by a bus, just so I don't need to read someone speculating about it on social media again. 

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Also, anyone else just have graph-blindness/numbness? Far too many out there and I just switch off a little when you see so many graphs explaining the same problem.

 

(I don't have a solution other than graphs)

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Have they actually said how long this is going to last? That's the worst bit for me, what if we haven't got a vaccine by next June/July, do we just keep doing the same thing in the hope of eventually getting one? At what point do we say enough is enough, that's what I'd like to know, an end in sight rather than the prospect of more lockdowns, more businesses shutting down and more of the unknown.

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32 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

More headshaking at what is being said at this press conference over here.

 

Adamant the drop in the virus was due to the lockdown (the downwards curve started before the lockdown did) and adamant that cases in the 10-19 age group are pretty much solely down to those not of school age (show us the breakdown of the data then rather than a decade's worth of ages in one block).

 

 

On what measure?

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7 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

 

This is root of the problem.

 

The data.

 

It all stems from the testing.  The data is then represented in various ways to show ridiculous predictions (or "worst case scenarios") and is used to be as visually impactful as possible.  Today's graphs were more of the same.  People should note the scaling on the y axis, rather than the curves themselves.

 

They're still banging on about the lockdown reducing numbers, when the lockdown was introduced after the epidemic peak.  If that is the narrative from the outset, then lockdown measures, restrictions etc. will be a forever constant until the data isn't there.

 

This tinkering with the restrictions, tier 1, 2, 3, stage 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or whatever will never disappear until a vaccine arrives.

 

We're in a constant revolving circle of never ending restrictions until then.

That just isn't true, you have completely made that up. Lockdown was introduced in March, and the peak was in April. Seriously, where do you get this shit from that you continue to post, day after day?

 

https://covid19.who.int/region/euro/country/gb

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5 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Have they actually said how long this is going to last? That's the worst bit for me, what if we haven't got a vaccine by next June/July, do we just keep doing the same thing in the hope of eventually getting one? At what point do we say enough is enough, that's what I'd like to know, an end in sight rather than the prospect of more lockdowns, more businesses shutting down and more of the unknown.

What were the scientists saying at the start of all this, it could take 10 to 20 years to develop a vaccine! Now I’m not a scientist but I suspect they based this on previous vaccine development timescales. If a vaccine was in stage 3 of development then the government would know if it was going to work, the very fact that they are coming out with these knew measures and ideas says to me that a vaccine is not just round the corner  to being rolled out.

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1 minute ago, FoxesDeb said:

That just isn't true, you have completely made that up. Lockdown was introduced in March, and the peak was in April. Seriously, where do you get this shit from that you continue to post, day after day?

 

https://covid19.who.int/region/euro/country/gb

It’s a football forum, everyone’s brains are pickled. 

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