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so..

 

Pubs, restaurants, gyms and non-essential shops will have to close for four weeks from Thursday, he said.

But unlike the restrictions in spring, schools, colleges and universities can stay open.

 

WHAT THE ACTUAL **** is the point in that, C'mon someone please enlighten me

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I don't get why Unis stay open. 

13 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

I can see lockdown being extended beyond December 2nd

Sadly I think you're right. This 'save Christmas' bollocks is just a facade for justifying their decision. It doesn't save Christmas at all. Covid doesn't go away on 2nd Dec. 

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9 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

This sort of hyperbole is part of what get's people's backs up.  The implication that if we don't go to these sort of lengths, there will be no grannies left.

 

If coronavirus did not exist, we would expect 300,000 people over 80 (aka "grannies") to die within a year.  Since coronavirus does exist, and let's say a worst case scenario 120,000 total deaths, perhaps 70,000 of them over 80.  Which means 360,000 or so (allowing for those who would have been among the 300,000) over 80's dying instead of the 300,000 we had before.

 

Which means that without coronavirus, an over 80 had a 10% chance of dying within the year.  With coronavirus, pessimistic scenario, it's 12%.

 

2% of old people, therefore, will die before their time.  That is undoubtedly sad.  Tragic, in fact.

10% of old people will die on schedule when their time is up.  But they will have spent their last year inmisery with no relatives or friends visiting and they will have probably died alone.

88% of old people will still be alive.  They will have spent a miserable year staring at the walls, those with dementia will have deteriorated, those without dementia may well have developed it, and some of those who couldn't visit the doctor or who were frightened off from visiting the doctor will have developed something else fatal anyway. 

 

I don't think the government realises that if an old person dies alone after a miserable year, but it isn't coronavirus that kills him, that is not a success for government policy.

 

Your callous disregard for sixty thousand 'grannies' (your figures) aside, the over-eighties are not exclusive in their vulnerability. I don't have the figures to hand, but during the first lockdown the 'vulnerable' group was somewhere in the millions (including quite a few of non-advanced years on here). Are they all expendable too?

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4 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

so..

 

Pubs, restaurants, gyms and non-essential shops will have to close for four weeks from Thursday, he said.

But unlike the restrictions in spring, schools, colleges and universities can stay open.

 

WHAT THE ACTUAL **** is the point in that, C'mon someone please enlighten me

I think the education thing is a really difficult balancing act.  In my opinion, closing schools has three serious knock on effects, universities less so but still these to a degree:

 

1. Short term - many parents who fall into the camp of needing to go to work (manufacturing, construction, key workers etc) find it difficult to manage childcare and continue working.

2. Medium/long term - The mental health implications of not being with their peers can be detrimental to a whole generation of children

3. Long term - The damage that the interruption to their education on top of what they have already missed could be very damaging for that generation and therefore the economy in the next 10-15 years.

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The only logical reason I can see for not closing the University’s is that so many students have it, they just don’t want them all running home and spreading it. 

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11 minutes ago, StanSP said:

I don't get why Unis stay open. 

Sadly I think you're right. This 'save Christmas' bollocks is just a facade for justifying their decision. It doesn't save Christmas at all. Covid doesn't go away on 2nd Dec. 

- Money.

 

Spot on there though, saving Christmas is the way they're pushing this so people comply. 

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3 minutes ago, nnfox said:

I think the education thing is a really difficult balancing act.  In my opinion, closing schools has three serious knock on effects, universities less so but still these to a degree:

 

1. Short term - many parents who fall into the camp of needing to go to work (manufacturing, construction, key workers etc) find it difficult to manage childcare and continue working.

2. Medium/long term - The mental health implications of not being with their peers can be detrimental to a whole generation of children

3. Long term - The damage that the interruption to their education on top of what they have already missed could be very damaging for that generation and therefore the economy in the next 10-15 years.

I get what you are saying but you have to ask what the real priority is right now.

 

They are already talking about not coming out of this on December 2nd. If this carries on towards Christmas, the busiest time of the year for many businesses, it’s going to be game over for the economy. The High St has effectively had to close for a third of this year. 
 

They need to go hard and go now. 

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44 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

I can see lockdown being extended beyond December 2nd

If people continue to socialise then absolutely it will .......

 

in life you generally get out what you put in - sure there are exceptions but that’s a pretty decent premis to work from ..... 

 

 

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54 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

so..

 

Pubs, restaurants, gyms and non-essential shops will have to close for four weeks from Thursday, he said.

But unlike the restrictions in spring, schools, colleges and universities can stay open.

 

WHAT THE ACTUAL **** is the point in that, C'mon someone please enlighten me

 

They aren't following the science and/or the data.  They are following their own set of projections.  The narrative will not change until mass testing and vaccination is made available.

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34 minutes ago, Livid said:

I get what you are saying but you have to ask what the real priority is right now.

 

They are already talking about not coming out of this on December 2nd. If this carries on towards Christmas, the busiest time of the year for many businesses, it’s going to be game over for the economy. The High St has effectively had to close for a third of this year. 
 

They need to go hard and go now. 

I agree with you on secondary schools, they should switch back  to online lessons.

 

For universities I think it’s best to keep students where they are but it’s also a group that could be practically targeted for testing of the well with all these 15 minute tests we have purchased,

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Saving Christmas is another thing they need to bin. In seven weeks the infection rate is not going to be low enough to legally allow people to travel around the country to meet up and stay over.

 

If locking down to save people is the main thing now, the notion should still be in place then.

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So off licenses are ‘essential’ but gyms aren’t?
 

Forget keeping physically and mentally healthy and stay home and get pissed instead.

 

That’ll help the NHS :rolleyes:

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45 minutes ago, Livid said:

I get what you are saying but you have to ask what the real priority is right now.

 

They are already talking about not coming out of this on December 2nd. If this carries on towards Christmas, the busiest time of the year for many businesses, it’s going to be game over for the economy. The High St has effectively had to close for a third of this year. 
 

They need to go hard and go now. 

This, absolutely this. All the figures from SAGE suggest leaving schools open will slow down the decline in the virus. Personally I'd say the priority now has to be to get the high street functioning to some capacity in December or it will basically disappear. I believe something like 8 million jobs are either in retail or dependent upon it.

I know this is an unpopular thought but I'd close schools and Universities in their phusical emodiment until January but do at least offer decent online teaching. In January I would not allow universities to return to any courses which do not require lab work or practical medical experience. All arts courses could be taught remotely. Same I'm afraid with 6th forms. I'd also extend the school year into the summer vacation which next year would just need to be shorter than the usual 6/8 weeks.

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4 hours ago, moore_94 said:

Noticed on Wednesday that I had no sense of smell at all (after rigorous testing including pretty much shoving a rotten onion up my nose) so went off for a test

 

Only places I have been in the last 2 weeks are McDonalds and Tesco ffs

 

C83F3E6F-DB22-477A-8FB2-4EBCB393837B.jpeg

Hope you don't get any other symptoms and losing your sense of smell for a bit is all you get.

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17 minutes ago, Izzy said:

So off licenses are ‘essential’ but gyms aren’t?
 

Forget keeping physically and mentally healthy and stay home and get pissed instead.

 

That’ll help the NHS :rolleyes:

People use off licenses for basics like bread & milk more than they do to get booze I’d imagine

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17 minutes ago, Corky said:

Saving Christmas is another thing they need to bin. In seven weeks the infection rate is not going to be low enough to legally allow people to travel around the country to meet up and stay over.

 

If locking down to save people is the main thing now, the notion should still be in place then.

Lockdowns will only be effective for so long. People’s enthusiasm and discipline for them wane over time. If we were still in lockdown at Christmas so many people would disobey the rules that the government might as well loosen the restrictions.

 

I think we’ll come out of lockdown and return to the tier system after the 2nd November, but it might be that a lot more areas return to higher tiers.

 

Either way, the whole thing is a complete and utter shit show.

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My workplace has a thermometer camera in reception you have to stand in front of before you are allowed in. It seems to work perfectly fine for everyone except me. Every single day it reads between 31 and 33c for me, which would indicate i am dead. For everyone else it seems to read normally and I'm obviously not dead, what could cause that? Coupled with the fact social distancing has been completely out the window since July, it makes me worry. Although we haven't had any cases, yet.

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