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Coronavirus Thread

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45 minutes ago, String fellow said:

As I understand it, deniers of Covid-19 are those people who compare it to 'flu or believe it to be a government conspiracy for social control, or have some other agenda that prevents them seeing what is right in front of their eyes. Demonstrators outside a school in Liverpool shouting at kids not to get tested, are an example of folk with these misguided beliefs. Here's another article about deniers, written recently by a doctor in Derby.

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/local-news/hospital-leaders-sharp-rebuttals-deniers-4692135

Or, are people that haven’t been personally affected or don’t know anyone who’s had it. Don’t put me in that category though, I’m just giving another reason. If you’ve never seen a ghost or an alien, do you believe in their existence, probably not and you’d probably think people that claim that ghosts are real to be mad.

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3 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Or, are people that haven’t been personally affected or don’t know anyone who’s had it. Don’t put me in that category though, I’m just giving another reason. If you’ve never seen a ghost or an alien, do you believe in their existence, probably not and you’d probably think people that claim that ghosts are real to be mad.

I believe in aliens but not ghosts.

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12 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Or, are people that haven’t been personally affected or don’t know anyone who’s had it. Don’t put me in that category though, I’m just giving another reason. If you’ve never seen a ghost or an alien, do you believe in their existence, probably not and you’d probably think people that claim that ghosts are real to be mad.

 

8 minutes ago, Steven said:

I believe in aliens but not ghosts.

What about God? 

Anyone ever seen him? 

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7 minutes ago, Steven said:

I believe in aliens but not ghosts.

 

I'd be interested in what makes you believe in the former but not the latter when there is an equal lack of evidence for either.

 

But I guess that's for another thread.

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2 minutes ago, StanSP said:

 

What about God? 

Anyone ever seen him? 

Might explain his declining popularity in the UK.

 

He's quite popular in the less educated countries though.

Edited by simFox
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2 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

I'd be interested in what makes you believe in the former but not the latter when there is an equal lack of evidence for either.

 

But I guess that's for another thread.

I mean if you honestly think there isn't other forms of life in the universe, you're a bigger idiot than a covid denier.

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33 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

It's not just an argument about this week or this month.  GPs have been discouraging visits since March and did not lift the restrictions when the rates of infection were low in summer.  This, then, was not about protecting the NHS but about trying to ensure that no-one caught coronavirus at all.  There will have to be reduced cancer screenings and operations and so forth when the crisis is at its peak, but the crisis down time when cases were few should have been a time to catch up - not a time to keep on hiding because it hadn't quite gone away.

 

We don't know how much effect the general, varying degrees of lockdown have had on this disease.  We know for certain that regardless of policy, once the disease had taken hold, the Spring wave faded away in Summer and returned in Autumn regardless of human policy.  The only question is how much difference human policy made to the numbers.

You say yourself that the lack of cancer screening is due to GPs discouraging visits and nothing to do with lockdowns. Do you think that they would have been more likely to encourage visits without a lockdown to suppress infection rates?

 

So the spring wave vanished like Trumpian magic then? Nothing to do with the hard lockdown? I suppose the same magic worked in Melbourne to apparently eliminate the virus after reaching over 700 positive tests per day amongst a population of 6m?

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18 minutes ago, z-layrex said:

I mean if you honestly think there isn't other forms of life in the universe, you're a bigger idiot than a covid denier.

That would depend upon whether the original post was referring to a belief in alien visitation, or the existence of extra-terrestrial life elsewhere in the universe. I'm sure that you'll find in respect of the latter, Buce entertains the near certainty of this. It's only a matter of time before we discover at the very least, non cellular life forms such as - dare I say - viruses and viroids - or single celled organisms in our own solar system. In respect of sentient life - it's doubtless out there, but the universe is so vast spatially and temporally that even if it did coincide with our own fleeting 'civilisation' it's likely that we'd never even know about it far less have been visited given the vast distances of interstellar space. 

 

As you know, known science is empirical as opposed to anecdotal and about evidence, not "belief". Buce is right, currently there is zero evidence of alien life.  

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6 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

You say yourself that the lack of cancer screening is due to GPs discouraging visits and nothing to do with lockdowns. Do you think that they would have been more likely to encourage visits without a lockdown to suppress infection rates?

 

So the spring wave vanished like Trumpian magic then? Nothing to do with the hard lockdown? I suppose the same magic worked in Melbourne to apparently eliminate the virus after reaching over 700 positive tests per day amongst a population of 6m?

Unfortunately you've decided not to answer what I actually wrote, but what you imagine me to have written.

 

The Australia one is a simple misunderstanding.  When I said (the bit you forgot to bold) "once the disease had taken hold", I was not referring to a relatively small number of cases like in Australia -  I was referring to huge numbers of cases like the UK.  By the time it occurred to our government to do what Australia did, it was too late.  So your supposition about Melbourne is irrelevant to my post.  

 

As for the hard lockdown, I suppose it is possible that our case reduction was entirely due to the hard lockdown,  But it's unlikely, because firstly cases were falling before hard lockdown started, and secondly because countries that didn't have a hard lockdown still had cases reduced.  Something else, as well as hard lockdown, caused the reduction.  I think once again you have misunderstood what I said - when I said "we don't know for certain how much effect the general, varying degrees of lockdown have had" I was not saying that I believe lockdown has made no difference.  I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, but I don't think my wording was all that obscure.

 

If you could helpfully quote the part where I said that lack of cancer screening was nothing to do with lockdown, I would be obliged.  I can't see how you've got that interpretation at all.

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3 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

Unfortunately you've decided not to answer what I actually wrote, but what you imagine me to have written.

 

The Australia one is a simple misunderstanding.  When I said (the bit you forgot to bold) "once the disease had taken hold", I was not referring to a relatively small number of cases like in Australia -  I was referring to huge numbers of cases like the UK.  By the time it occurred to our government to do what Australia did, it was too late.  So your supposition about Melbourne is irrelevant to my post.  

 

As for the hard lockdown, I suppose it is possible that our case reduction was entirely due to the hard lockdown,  But it's unlikely, because firstly cases were falling before hard lockdown started, and secondly because countries that didn't have a hard lockdown still had cases reduced.  Something else, as well as hard lockdown, caused the reduction.  I think once again you have misunderstood what I said - when I said "we don't know for certain how much effect the general, varying degrees of lockdown have had" I was not saying that I believe lockdown has made no difference.  I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, but I don't think my wording was all that obscure.

 

If you could helpfully quote the part where I said that lack of cancer screening was nothing to do with lockdown, I would be obliged.  I can't see how you've got that interpretation at all.

You’ve completely lost me I’m afraid. 

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39 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

I'd be interested in what makes you believe in the former but not the latter when there is an equal lack of evidence for either.

 

But I guess that's for another thread.

Mathematics. :thumbup:

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46 minutes ago, z-layrex said:

I mean if you honestly think there isn't other forms of life in the universe, you're a bigger idiot than a covid denier.

 

Is there any need to be so rude and confrontational?

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38 minutes ago, Line-X said:

That would depend upon whether the original post was referring to a belief in alien visitation, or the existence of extra-terrestrial life elsewhere in the universe. I'm sure that you'll find in respect of the latter, Buce entertains the near certainty of this. It's only a matter of time before we discover at the very least, non cellular life forms such as - dare I say - viruses and viroids - or single celled organisms in our own solar system. In respect of sentient life - it's doubtless out there, but the universe is so vast spatially and temporally that even if it did coincide with our own fleeting 'civilisation' it's likely that we'd never even know about it far less have been visited given the vast distances of interstellar space. 

 

As you know, known science is empirical as opposed to anecdotal and about evidence, not "belief". Buce is right, currently there is zero evidence of alien life.  

Completely agree, again, wasn't directed at him.

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On 10/11/2020 at 13:06, leicsmac said:

Empathy not often extending beyond line of sight is really a thing, yeah. It's also something we could do with getting over because it's a pretty deep evolutionary flaw.

It goes back to primal instincts doesn't it. If it doesn't affect my immediate circle then why bother, it is something that needs to change though.

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2 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

Or, are people that haven’t been personally affected or don’t know anyone who’s had it. Don’t put me in that category though, I’m just giving another reason. If you’ve never seen a ghost or an alien, do you believe in their existence, probably not and you’d probably think people that claim that ghosts are real to be mad.

 

Not really comparable.

 

There's massive amounts of credible evidence of covid 19's existence everywhere. Even if you've not known anyone who's had it I'm sure most know someone who knows someone who's had it.

 

Plus, even if you think the governments of the world are all in on some massive conspiracy. Why would every frontline doctor and nurse in the world who are seeing the effects first hand, suddenly decide to start this conspiracy and invent a disease, that would take tens if not hundreds of millions of people to cover up and lie about?

 

Where there's never been any credible evidence of ghosts or aliens.

 

It's not the same thing at all. With ghosts and aliens existing you are going on blind faith, worh covid you are going on mountains of evidence. Even if you've never seen either.

 

Sinilarly, I never saw either World Wars either but my dad and granddad fought in them and told me about them and there's mountainous amounts of evidence they happened.

Edited by Sampson
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1 hour ago, Ollie93 said:

It goes back to primal instincts doesn't it. If it doesn't affect my immediate circle then why bother, it is something that needs to change though.

Yes, it does. And while on occasion we are entirely slave to those instincts, most of the time we don't have to be.

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1 hour ago, Sampson said:

 

Not really comparable.

 

There's massive amounts of credible evidence of covid 19's existence everywhere. Even if you've not known anyone who's had it I'm sure most know someone who knows someone who's had it.

 

Plus, even if you think the governments of the world are all in on some massive conspiracy. Why would every frontline doctor and nurse in the world who are seeing the effects first hand, suddenly decide to start this conspiracy and invent a disease, that would take tens if not hundreds of millions of people to cover up and lie about?

 

Where there's never been any credible evidence of ghosts or aliens.

 

It's not the same thing at all. With ghosts and aliens existing you are going on blind faith, worh covid you are going on mountains of evidence. Even if you've never seen either.

 

Sinilarly, I never saw either World Wars either but my dad and granddad fought in them and told me about them and there's mountainous amounts of evidence they happened.

Erm, it's not a comparison.

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Anyone who thinks outside the box, or questions anything going on is instantly called a "covidiot", and is wearing a "tin-foil hat". 

 

Surely questioning on-going matters is better than just accepting everything thrown at you? For example, people who state certain hospitals are empty instantly get ridiculed for being "inconsiderate" and having "selfish thoughts".

 

But anyway, keep being spoon fed information by the MSM, nothing I can do to change that. 

Edited by Harrydc
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