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Coronavirus Thread

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Boris was there for the glory ride to Brexit, this sh*t is way beyond his capacity, but that is not a lambast of the government, who, just for those are totally incapable of spotting the difference is made up of a couple more people than some blond gimp.  

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13 minutes ago, The Fox Covert said:

It isn't straightforward, and you are also allowed to leave home for exercise. The government haven't made it easy for the police to enforce breaches of the lockdown area by failing to state exactly what 'local area' means. It could mean parish, district council or county or even something else entirely. Scotland, which has a competent, capable and caring politician at the helm, has a rule on leaving home which is simple, straightforward and easy to understand. It says local government area (there is a single tier local government system in Scotland) plus five miles. So for example if you live in Kibworth, near the centre of Harborough district you could go to Wigston or Enderby, just inside the neighbouring authority. How difficult is that?

The legislation has been rushed through in order to get it implemented. I think in regards to tickets going out more frequently it probably the government have loosely put in “local area” but like you say what does that mean? If I take my dog out for a walk I can easily walk into two different counties..... so I don’t think the designated areas are clear at all. 
 

The fact the tickets were passed through, would lean one to assume that there is an expectation they be given out. I did not hear of many occasion where people were being fined in previous lockdowns, it tended to be parties and larger gatherings.... but I wonder if forces have been instructed to be less lenient, and potentially told if someone can’t give a valid reason to be out of their house then give them a ticket... it’s something that can be disputed, you won’t get arrested unless it is a serious breach or you’re a a repeat offender I imagine. 
 

I wouldn’t say it’s a misuse of power, because they can give these tickets out, it’s the grey areas of the legislation that make it difficult to integrate, but I guess that is the difficulty when quickly enforcing new bits of legislation. 

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3 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

So you think we should just have thousands of empty, but highly staffed beds, just waiting in case this happened? For years on end? Like I asked before, who is paying for that? 

There's been strong evidence to suggest that bed capacity has been a problem for years on end.

 

In Leicester,  the General reduced it's ICU capacity from 12 to 1 in 2018. From 2012, Glenfield Hospital - it was planned to close it's heart centre and only through controlled campaign it's remained there until 2021 when it goes over to an already over-subscribed, over-capacity Leicester Royal Infirmary. Again in 2018, the LRI was subject to four hour waits for a bed - the ICU had close in the same year due to staff shortages. The existing capacity has been poor for years - and it's continually been reduced. 

 

I found this out to my own sad personal circumstance.

 

My dying Mum called an ambulance on a Saturday morning and it was 24 hours before she was finally placed in a bed within a manned ward. Approximately nearly four hours awaiting the ambulance, followed by a three hour wait in the queue outside A&E of ambulance and then agonising wait within the building itself.

 

Now I could go in detail how simply the building itself was a cluster**** in terms of lack in space. Equally I could go on about in the last seven years, I have done condition surveys for about 350 to 400 buildings across the country in NHS trusts and continually spellbounds me how trusts, have either gave away land, allowed other hospital to literally mothball, worked it down so basically the repair bill is huge that it borders impossible to maintain. 

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7 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

And The US are fairing exceptionally well, aren't they? I think your graph proves my point very well, it doesn't matter how much you spend, people are dying anyway 

Surely you know why the US is that far ahead on that graph right?

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13 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

And The US are fairing exceptionally well, aren't they? I think your graph proves my point very well, it doesn't matter how much you spend, people are dying anyway 

Eh? The US is a monster compared to us, their cases were always going to be out of control just because of their sheer population..... plus they also were led through a pandemic by a retired part time porn star who’s mental capacity is comparable to a spoon.... they were screwed before the virus even hit the big Apple. 

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54 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Yeah I despise Tories as much as anyone however the sheer entitlement of a lot of people to not see the seriousness of the situation is just as bad. The government were put in a difficult place because people wanted their christmas, they wanted to see their family and they didn't want a virus to stop them. Weak government, and this is the consequence. The media and their 'Christmas is cancelled' narrative was also appalling. Merkel was hard and decisive, people in Germany didn't mix at Christmas and their cases and deaths are declining. Pathetic, British arrogance, and now we're paying in lives. 

Hang on, correct me if i'm wrong, but i didn't see people putting the government in a difficult place by wanting a christmas, how would they do that. It was a case of being offered and accepting, which is all we can do.  Boris was the one who offered it!, in fact he promised 5 days but could only deliver 1. Nobody actually demanded they have a christmas, well no one i know anyway. 

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Just now, yorkie1999 said:

Hang on, correct me if i'm wrong, but i didn't see people putting the government in a difficult place by wanting a christmas, how would they do that. It was a case of being offered and accepting, which is all we can do.  Boris was the one who offered it!, in fact he promised 5 days but could only deliver 1. Nobody actually demanded they have a christmas, well no one i know anyway. 

Really??? I am lost for words. 

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54 minutes ago, The whole world smiles said:

I'm glad you've mentioned Italy. 

 

As of 2017 Italy was one of the few eu-15 countries to spend less on health per capita per head than us. 

 

So the fact that they have also had severe problems dealing with covid points that there is a relationship between healthcare spending (or lack of it) and covid deaths. 

Mate, I admire you for trying but you’re arguing with someone that will defend this bunch of useless c**s to the death. 
 

Arguing that Italy has suffered the same without having our government is just weird. At least compare health care spending?!

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6 minutes ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

We will all of had it before long at that rate.

Is there any medical proof yet that, in general, once you catch it, you've got a certain level of immunity to it.

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6 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Hang on, correct me if i'm wrong, but i didn't see people putting the government in a difficult place by wanting a christmas, how would they do that. It was a case of being offered and accepting, which is all we can do.  Boris was the one who offered it!, in fact he promised 5 days but could only deliver 1. Nobody actually demanded they have a christmas, well no one i know anyway. 

Johnson himself mocked Starmer for wanting to cancel Christmas when he suggested it wasn't the best idea to allow families to meet up with the virus still strong.

 

There was a huge demand for a normal Christmas, not particularly helped by Johnson saying we'd be back to normal by then anyway.

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7 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Hang on, correct me if i'm wrong, but i didn't see people putting the government in a difficult place by wanting a christmas, how would they do that. It was a case of being offered and accepting, which is all we can do.  Boris was the one who offered it!, in fact he promised 5 days but could only deliver 1. Nobody actually demanded they have a christmas, well no one i know anyway. 

Most people i know reacted with a mix of incredulity and laughter when the xmas rules were announced. Any same person knew the 5 day relaxation was suicide (or murder, dependent on your view)....but of course Johnson wanted popularity over public health advice 

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1 minute ago, Paninistickers said:

Most people i know reacted with a mix of incredulity and laughter when the xmas rules were announced. Any same person knew the 5 day relaxation was suicide (or murder, dependent on your view)....but of course Johnson wanted popularity over public health advice 

Why was it? A personal acceptance that given this freedom they would be unable to exert social responsibility and abide by the designated guidelines?

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Just now, Paninistickers said:

Most people i know reacted with a mix of incredulity and laughter when the xmas rules were announced. Any same person knew the 5 day relaxation was suicide (or murder, dependent on your view)....but of course Johnson wanted popularity over public health advice 

People i know reacted the same, but i don't one person who went out of there way to put pressure on the government, apart from writing to your mp and asking politely if he could persuade santa to come, how would you actually do it? 

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24 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

There's been strong evidence to suggest that bed capacity has been a problem for years on end.

 

In Leicester,  the General reduced it's ICU capacity from 12 to 1 in 2018. From 2012, Glenfield Hospital - it was planned to close it's heart centre and only through controlled campaign it's remained there until 2021 when it goes over to an already over-subscribed, over-capacity Leicester Royal Infirmary. Again in 2018, the LRI was subject to four hour waits for a bed - the ICU had close in the same year due to staff shortages. The existing capacity has been poor for years - and it's continually been reduced. 

 

I found this out to my own sad personal circumstance.

 

My dying Mum called an ambulance on a Saturday morning and it was 24 hours before she was finally placed in a bed within a manned ward. Approximately nearly four hours awaiting the ambulance, followed by a three hour wait in the queue outside A&E of ambulance and then agonising wait within the building itself.

 

Now I could go in detail how simply the building itself was a cluster**** in terms of lack in space. Equally I could go on about in the last seven years, I have done condition surveys for about 350 to 400 buildings across the country in NHS trusts and continually spellbounds me how trusts, have either gave away land, allowed other hospital to literally mothball, worked it down so basically the repair bill is huge that it borders impossible to maintain. 

Sorry to hear about your situation mate. December 19 my mum was rushed to hospital (LRI) at about midnight, her situation was critical. I managed to get to the hospital about 2am and my brother from London about 3:30. It was an absolute shit show, even though it was critical there were no ICU beds at all. She never managed to get one and died without us while having a MRI at about 6am. Anyone who can say that the NHS is not underfunded needs to get in the real world. To think that was before Covid 19 too is scary. 

Edited by Unabomber
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54 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Well when they do, the public cry off to the media saying jobsworth police hounded them when they met up for a walk.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-55560814

This is EXACTLY the problem in this country

Those two stupid women could have ‘walked’ from their front doors. I’m glad they were fined

Its time we had crackdown on this fookin nonsense. Look how many people are dying from Covid. This is DYING from this virus

Edited by Col city fan
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34 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

And The US are fairing exceptionally well, aren't they? I think your graph proves my point very well, it doesn't matter how much you spend, people are dying anyway 

This is my last post on the matter because life is too short and we don't seem particularly close to changing each others mind. 

 

But as I'm sure your aware and just being belligerent but the US uses a completely different insurance based health care model to the other countries and have the most expensive drug and treatment prices in the world (sometimes 20 times more expensive than the UK) so they arent that relevant in the arguement. 

 

A better example would be Germany 2nd biggest spend per capita on health in Europe lowest excess deaths. Coincidence? Your gonna say yes. I'm gonna so absolutely not. So time to put a film on. 

 

Goodnight and up the city. 

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1 hour ago, FoxesDeb said:

So you think we should just have thousands of empty, but highly staffed beds, just waiting in case this happened? For years on end? Like I asked before, who is paying for that? 

I think you've missed the point.

 

NHS, or any proponent of, might not have wanted or begged for such extreme spare beds and equipment etc, but for years they've been batted away saying 'there's no money, sorry, deal with what you've got' (in effect). When you consider the literal billions that have been farmed off to Tory friends and acquaintances, it kinds of puts any excuse given to NHS in the last decade about there being no money pretty much null and void.

Like @Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said - the money was always there, it was just chosen not to be used to at least help out NHS hospitals, even for short-term. I don't think the poitn was to go to one extreme and have 'thousands of empty beds' just sitting there. But it begs the question could some help have been given to NHS now that we know there was some money floating around...?

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40 minutes ago, Unabomber said:

Sorry to hear about your situation mate. December 19 my mum was rushed to hospital (LRI) at about midnight, her situation was critical. I managed to get to the hospital about 2am and my brother from London about 3:30. It was an absolute shit show, even though it was critical there were no ICU beds at all. She never managed to get one and died without us while having a MRI at about 6am. Anyone who can say that the NHS is not underfunded needs to get in the real world. To think that was before Covid 19 too is scary. 

Late November 2019 here. Sounds horrific that mate. 
 

I am sure we will have had similarities in the past twelve months in that not able to share in your grief with your nearest family and friends has been despairing 
 

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25 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

This is EXACTLY the problem in this country

Those two stupid women could have ‘walked’ from their front doors. I’m glad they were fined

Its time we had crackdown on this fookin nonsense. Look how many people are dying from Covid. This is DYING from this virus

Totally disproportionate response from the police. Typical heavy handed response on an easy target. Several police cars and van ambushing 2 women who had gone out for a walk in a largely safe and deserted area. Virtually zero risk.

A quiet word would have sufficed. 

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30 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

This is EXACTLY the problem in this country

Those two stupid women could have ‘walked’ from their front doors. I’m glad they were fined

Its time we had crackdown on this fookin nonsense. Look how many people are dying from Covid. This is DYING from this virus

We actually don’t know the figures of people actually dying from COVID rather than with COVID.

Huge difference and unfortunately probably a figure we will never find out.

Annual excess death numbers will be the closest we come to knowing.

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Exactly, how you can get me saying the NHS is/was badly underfunded to 'let's just have thousands of empty beds then' is beyond me really, it's an extreme and putting words in my mouth. It's stretched to if not beyond breaking point every winter and has been for years upon years. But yeah heaven forbid it be any fault of government. This I'll stick up for my team no matter the evidence or decency of not doing is quite literally beyond me, its almost as bad as what's going on across the pond. Bloody weird 

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