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Coronavirus Thread

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39 minutes ago, BenTheFox said:

I was referring specifically to why we as a nation have generally not dealt with it very well. The whole world is dealing with more or less the same issue and some nations have handled it better than others. I acknowledge that is difficult to directly compare nations as there are potentially many variables including population density, climate, age of population, ways of recording deaths etc. but it's not completely invalid. 

mainly because there are a-holes like this living among us, there are many other examples i can pull up from the past 2 days alone, people travelling 300miles for walks with a view, people travelling miles to parties, people holding the parties, people travelling from Scotland to Wales to visit friends, people going from Bolton to Preston to pick up a takeaway all reported in various news feeds, this is happening every w/end & probably most nights

 

but these take the biscuit

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-55705272

 

i will await the yeah but if Cummings hadn't done it, then..............
 

Edited by BKLFox
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2 hours ago, Col city fan said:

Just a shame the public aren’t going to be held to account in the same way isnt it?

The government have dropped some right clangers but if you are putting the sole blame for this mess squarely at their feet, you’re miles off

The catalogue of errors made by ‘the people’ during this pandemic should never be forgotten.

Its a combination of both really butnlets be honest its only the minority of the public that have acted irresponsibly.

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1 hour ago, BenTheFox said:

Personally I'd allocate 70% of the blame to the government and 30% to the public. 

Just don’t think people who live in glass houses should throw stones

If you’ve, as much as you can, kept yourself safe, kept others safe, stuck at least mainly within the rules etc etc then you’ve got an argument to make. If you haven’t, you’ve not helped yourself or others and are equally as culpable as the government, I’d argue more so personally. What this pandemic has shown me are a few things. That some people are more daft and selfish than I thought they were, that people don’t take self responsibility anywhere near as seriously as they should and that they blame game’ is alive and well in the UK

There are some who have been amazing throughout.. the frontline NHS, the care workers, that old geezer who did all those laps on his Zimmer frame. There have unfortunately also been those who haven’t changed their behaviour and mindsets at all. That’ll also be something I’ll not forget going forward 

Edited by Col city fan
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5 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

mainly because there are a-holes like this living among us, there are many other examples i can pull up from the past 2 days alone, people travelling 300miles for walks with a view, people travelling miles to parties, people holding the parties, people travelling from Scotland to Wales to visit friends, people going from Bolton to Preston to pick up a takeaway all reported in various news feeds, this is happening every w/end & probably most nights

 

but these take the biscuit

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-55705272
 

Once you look past the selfishness and ignorance, the absolute brass neck of it is almost admirable.

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56 minutes ago, BenTheFox said:

I suppose I didn't really think it through. The general point is that I think the actions or in many cases lack of actions of the government greatly outweigh some bellends holding house parties and not wearing masks in supermarkets. 

There are some selfish idiots, no doubt about it but them trying to blame the public shouldn’t take away from the incompetence through much of this by the government.

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1 minute ago, Costock_Fox said:

There are some selfish idiots, no doubt about it but them trying to blame the public shouldn’t take away from the incompetence through much of this by the government.

As I said on a previous post, there are people who break the rules anywhere you go. We as a nation are not alone in having selfish idiots who simply do not care or think that the whole thing is a scam. 

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I have just had a young lad in my shop wearing no mask, when i asked him if he could put a mask on he told me doesn't need to wear one, i asked why and he paused erm I've got a bad chest. I turned round and said if your chest is that bad you shouldn't be working on a construction site and coming in to a shop to buy a hi vis vest. Told him to go and wait in the car park and we will serve him outside, think he was a bit shocked. I promptly served the 2 other customers before going outside to him! 

To be fair we have been open throughout the whole year and this is the first time we have had someone not wear a mask.

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Honestly, I don’t greatly blame either the public or the government for all this. If there’s anything I think might have helped then I think that would have been many years of investment in testing and manufacturing capacity, to get us up to speed with Germany. Beyond that, s... just happened.

 

I’m not saying the government didn’t make operational mistakes, or that COVID deniers aren’t a problem. But with or without them, the virus gets into humans, spreads around the world, gets around Britain - for geographic, demographic and economic reasons we were never going to be able to handle it like Australasia - reaches the vulnerable, causes multiple lockdowns and mutates to a more infectious strain.

 

Maybe in the future we’ll be able to handle pandemics with the kind of relative success that South Korea have, or maybe that’s fanciful. But nowhere in the Western Hemisphere was ready for this, and - investment in vaccines aside - all we’ve really been able to do is firefight.

Edited by Dunge
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38 minutes ago, Nalis said:

Its a combination of both really butnlets be honest its only the minority of the public that have acted irresponsibly.

The trouble is, it's been too big a minority.

 

A couple of large surveys, by both the ONS and someone else, showed similar results.    Approximately 5% of the population have either taken absolutely no notice of the restrictions, or only made a token gesture of doing the absolute minimum.

 

That implies about 95% have been pretty good, which is a fantastic proportion.

 

But 5% of 68 million people is about 3.5 million.  And 3.5 million people not doing what the should is enough to spread an infection disease around a relatively small country, ...no matter what the Government does.

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55 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

mainly because there are a-holes like this living among us, there are many other examples i can pull up from the past 2 days alone, people travelling 300miles for walks with a view, people travelling miles to parties, people holding the parties, people travelling from Scotland to Wales to visit friends, people going from Bolton to Preston to pick up a takeaway all reported in various news feeds, this is happening every w/end & probably most nights

 

but these take the biscuit

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-55705272

 

i will await the yeah but if Cummings hadn't done it, then..............
 

I think the problem comes down to it's impossible to police in this country. There's simply not enough coppers, and a similar problem has been created because there are simply not enough hospital beds. Why's that? Government cuts over the years and i suspect the reasons are the need, of channeling funds into other areas. Public sector pensions cost the taxpayer 42 billion quid a year! In addition to paying for a sector that doesn't make any money, where's that little lot coming from, the only place is by reducing other areas of public funding which are deemed as less necessary, or putting taxes up. 

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To give some context to the ‘blame public’ narrative, they believe in the cases of self isolation being ignored, that 70% of examples were people needing to go work or asked still to attend a workplace. 
 

Also the vaccination effort will be totally worth **** all if they can sort out the shambolic test and trace. If there’s an outbreak again, that service needs to be totally on it. Only have to look at the Aussies for that
 

 

Edited by Cardiff_Fox
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3 minutes ago, RowlattsFox said:

I know it's a Monday and all that, but deaths below 600 today. What was it last monday? Feels like it's been more than 1000 each day for a while. Cases down as well. Progress at least.

It’s more deaths than last Monday sadly 

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2 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

I think the problem comes down to it's impossible to police in this country. There's simply not enough coppers, and a similar problem has been created because there are simply not enough hospital beds. Why's that? Government cuts over the years and i suspect the reasons are the need, of channeling funds into other areas. Public sector pensions cost the taxpayer 42 billion quid a year! In addition to paying for a sector that doesn't make any money, where's that little lot coming from, the only place is by reducing other areas of public funding which are deemed as less necessary, or putting taxes up. 

Very true Yorkie they have to rob Peter to pay Paul but we the gp must stand up and be counted, if we didn’t act like utter morons we wouldn’t need to be policed on the minor things leaving them to deal with the important stuff.
How many times do we hear “haven’t you got anything better to do, you should be out catching murderers etc that’s what my taxes pay you for” of course they should but can’t because of the idiots.


Same with hospital beds I’d imagine we have all seen the A&E, Ambulance style programs on tv how much time and beds (in a normal year) are being taken up with weekend binge drinkers, arses that have been in fights and self inflicted injuries due to said drink or stupidity & bravado, in the main it’s us the gp that are the drain on the nhs resources through our selfish acts.

 

Of course more funds are needed, in all sectors, but just imagine how much would be freed up by us the gp toeing the line and thinking before doing.

Edited by BKLFox
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1 hour ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

To give some context to the ‘blame public’ narrative, they believe in the cases of self isolation being ignored, that 70% of examples were people needing to go work or asked still to attend a workplace. 
 

Also the vaccination effort will be totally worth **** all if they can sort out the shambolic test and trace. If there’s an outbreak again, that service needs to be totally on it. Only have to look at the Aussies for that
 

 

I live with 3 people who all tested positive and who all put me down for track and trace, I didn’t receive 1 call or email from track and trace. Mad really 

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3 hours ago, Col city fan said:

Just don’t think people who live in glass houses should throw stones

If you’ve, as much as you can, kept yourself safe, kept others safe, stuck at least mainly within the rules etc etc then you’ve got an argument to make. If you haven’t, you’ve not helped yourself or others and are equally as culpable as the government, I’d argue more so personally. What this pandemic has shown me are a few things. That some people are more daft and selfish than I thought they were, that people don’t take self responsibility anywhere near as seriously as they should and that they blame game’ is alive and well in the UK

There are some who have been amazing throughout.. the frontline NHS, the care workers, that old geezer who did all those laps on his Zimmer frame. There have unfortunately also been those who haven’t changed their behaviour and mindsets at all. That’ll also be something I’ll not forget going forward 

Looking from the outside back into the inside..Top honest post...:appl:

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58 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

This is a useful warning for those that think we can just get back on with things once the most vulnerable are vaccinated. The more virus you have circulating, the more chance you have of mutations that have the potential to put you back into a bit of a mess. This only reflects on antibodies, not t-cells, but it’s a clear warning that you still can’t take chances with having the virus circulating.

 

Really need to learn our lesson from last year. Use vaccinations and the changing season to drive cases right down, have an effective track and trace system, and have some control over reintroductions. And play our part in supporting middle and low income countries in getting populations vaccinated.

There are several of this sort of theoretical study showing what might happen.  Why does the study not give some numbers - there are literally millions of confirmed coronavirus cases, and there are thousands of these specific variant cases - where are the numbers to say how many of the new cases have been identified, how many have had coronavirus before, and how many would be expected (based on averages) to have had coronavirus before?

 

If they would expect say 100 of the confirmed cases (on average) to have tested positive for coronavirus in the past, and the actual number is zero, then that would tell us something.  If the actual number is 100, that would tell us something.  So why isn't it quoted?  Until cases start occurring of people who have actually suffered reinfection, I am not going to worry unduly about the numbers who hypothetically might suffer but in practice aren't doing.

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7 hours ago, Finnaldo said:

 

 

Sol touched on it but I don’t fully buy this ‘public to blame’ narrative. Is there a minority of the population that refuse to play by the rules? Yes. But we’re amongst the highest polled for willingness to take the vaccine (the one I saw was 80%, second only behind Thailand on 83%) and, though you could credibly contest whether they’re being truthful, a YouGov poll showed those polled believed they’ve followed the rules stringently. 
 

The countries that have had haven’t done  so necessarily out of 100% public compliance, but either reacted quickly shutting borders or putting measurements in place (Germany early doors and New Zealand/Australia) or did so whilst also had a recent history of outbreaks and pandemic (South Korea and Japan) so had a strategy to implement instantly. 
 

Whenever we’ve had a lockdown, we’ve had cases come down. In March co-operation was so excellent we got deaths down to double figures for months on end, and even last time in November with a new, highly infectious strain as well as schools and workplaces open the cases and deaths came down. I interpret that as when the rules are straightforward, the public have in the majority followed rules and we’ve got on the right track. When its muddied with numerous system changes, an initially weak tier system and schools staying open then issues arise and cases take an upward trajectory. 
 

To sum up, there’s  certainly a minority that have made it difficult, but I firmly believe the public in the main have responded very well. Countries that have done well have not had to rely too heavily because borders were shut and restrictions put in place before Covid could take a foothold. The government were too lax back in February/March, the Track & Trace system was a bit of a failure and the rush for a quick summer reopening including ‘Eat Out To Help Out’ which was directly linked to 1 in 5 cases at one time, and then the Christmas debacle and brinkmanship on school closures. There’s been visible governmental failures throughout, and I think that’s had more of an impact than the public that has its troublemakers but has remained largely compliant. 
 

However, I’d again point out they’ve done very well on the vaccine rollout. They knew they had to get it right and they’ve done the right thing deputising to the NHS and Army. I have to commend the big success that we did need. 

Excellent post. I can't help but think that people are riled up by media images and articles of people not complying with the restrictions but the truth is, millions of people sat at home complying isn't newsworthy.

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