Coronavirus Thread

[Lionator 2,301]

53 minutes ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

I have to say that I’m at such a low ebb, I tell myself to stop looking at this thread and especially to stop looking at the corona virus news and yet I always look, hoping for some good news, and some light at the end of the tunnel.

Whether it’s my state of mind at the moment but I can see no light at the end of the tunnel, we’re so far away from any resemblance of normality, instead we’re entangled in restrictions and rules  with the continual worry of the restrictions being tightened further.

I read about quarantine hotels, travel bans, the vaccine not being effective, mass unemployment and the knock on effect that has on people’s lives.

Continually hearing/reading that you can’t go there, you can’t do that, you can’t see them is mentally exhausting.

 

I wish I could see an end to the current state of affairs but I can’t. 

Positive things regarding covid-19 at the moment.

 

- We have incredibly effective vaccines and in Israel they're now seeing cases and hospitalisations drop off in over 60's (who have had the Pfizer jab) compared to the under 60's.

- The Pfizer and Moderna mRNA jabs are genuinely groundbreaking and in time to come we'll look at them as one of the greatest human achievements of the 21st century.

- We have vaccinated 80% of over 80's. That's approximately 2.5 million people. Approximately 160 jabs save 1 life according to research. Therefore we've already prevented the death of 15,000+ over 80's from covid if all of those over 80's caught it.

- Cases yesterday were 22k, that's down from 68k three weeks ago. They're dropping. 

- Hospitalisations have most likely peaked and will likely decrease quickly over the next few weeks.

- Colchicine, a drug which is usually used for gout has been shown to greatly reduce hospitalisation and death in a trial in Canada. Expect similar findings from the RECOVERY trial in a few weeks.

- The covid mutations are completely normal. Even better we can track them so that we can take preventative measures against dangerous mutations rather than being caught off guard and ending up back at square one.

- The travel ban/quarantine thing may be a pain in 2021, but it's not going to be a long term thing. Don't panic. It would be nice if the government set out when it'll end. To be honest I think they'll stop short of a complete travel ban and just require hotel quarantine from high transmission countries.

- Pandemics end, and we're on the home straight. It's not going to go back to normal straight away but this SHOULD be the last restrictive lockdown in this country given vaccine efficacy. 

- We're in the midst of January, a depressing time regardless. Throw on top a pandemic, social isolation and uncertainty. It's ok not to be ok. It will get better!

[Alf Bentley 10,995]

51 minutes ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

I have to say that I’m at such a low ebb, I tell myself to stop looking at this thread and especially to stop looking at the corona virus news and yet I always look, hoping for some good news, and some light at the end of the tunnel.

Whether it’s my state of mind at the moment but I can see no light at the end of the tunnel, we’re so far away from any resemblance of normality, instead we’re entangled in restrictions and rules  with the continual worry of the restrictions being tightened further.

I read about quarantine hotels, travel bans, the vaccine not being effective, mass unemployment and the knock on effect that has on people’s lives.

Continually hearing/reading that you can’t go there, you can’t do that, you can’t see them is mentally exhausting.

 

I wish I could see an end to the current state of affairs but I can’t. 

 

I'm sure most people are at a low ebb at least some of the time. I know that I am.

 

It's easy to focus on the severe short-term negatives of lockdown and the potential long-term risks of other things going wrong, like unemployment and problems with the vaccine.

 

But there is light at the end of the tunnel - in the shape of the vaccine. Unless there are major problems with that, things will look a lot better within a couple of months. We should be able to do more, travel more, see more people, have more fun etc.

I'm pretty much writing off February and March, but focusing on the current probability that a semi-normality will return after that - and there might even be some improvement by March.

 

I don't think that I'm looking through rose-tinted specs. I know that Covid won't be completely gone for a long time, if ever, so there will be a persistent low risk or occasional flare-up.

Some things will take longer to open up fully (pubs, football?). The economy will be a mess for some time and that will affect some people badly.

I'd hope that life April/May will be a lot better than Jan/Feb - and summer better still. I'm trying to view it as like serving 2-3 months house arrest, with an approximate release date to look forward to....

[Nod.E 2,335]

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

 

Good news, whoever got that wrong and printed the story deserves to be sued.

Jesus fvcking Christ. I will never not be underwhelmed by the intelligence of folk.

 

On the flip side I am genuinely in awe of those that have worked to bring the vaccine to production and roll out so quickly.

 

I simultaneously can't get my head around the stupidity of like 50% of the population and the genius of 5%.

[Nod.E 2,335]

5 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

I'm sure most people are at a low ebb at least some of the time. I know that I am.

 

It's easy to focus on the severe short-term negatives of lockdown and the potential long-term risks of other things going wrong, like unemployment and problems with the vaccine.

 

But there is light at the end of the tunnel - in the shape of the vaccine. Unless there are major problems with that, things will look a lot better within a couple of months. We should be able to do more, travel more, see more people, have more fun etc.

I'm pretty much writing off February and March, but focusing on the current probability that a semi-normality will return after that - and there might even be some improvement by March.

 

I don't think that I'm looking through rose-tinted specs. I know that Covid won't be completely gone for a long time, if ever, so there will be a persistent low risk or occasional flare-up.

Some things will take longer to open up fully (pubs, football?). The economy will be a mess for some time and that will affect some people badly.

I'd hope that life April/May will be a lot better than Jan/Feb - and summer better still. I'm trying to view it as like serving 2-3 months house arrest, with an approximate release date to look forward to....

Exactly the way I'm looking at it, too.

 

And we've pretty much kicked January into touch already! Don't know about anyone else but I'm pleasantly surprised at how quickly it went. 

[Buce 11,905]

 

This govt minister says the UK is suffering so many deaths becuse of an ageing and obese population:

 

 

The words 'pot' and 'kettle' spring to mind.

[Sol thewall Bamba 8,071]

2 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

This govt minister says the UK is suffering so many deaths becuse of an ageing and obese population:

 

 

The words 'pot' and 'kettle' spring to mind.

 

Edited 26 January by Sol thewall Bamba

[Nod.E 2,335]

4 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

This govt minister says the UK is suffering so many deaths becuse of an ageing and obese population:

 

 

The words 'pot' and 'kettle' spring to mind.

Jesus

 

It's a good point though. We'll lock down an entire country to reduce deaths and strain on the NHS, all while McDonald's hovers around the top 10 for ad spend in the UK year after year.

 

As a population we are actively encouraged to eat rubbish, which causes excess deaths and puts strain on the NHS. It won't get the same attention as any small increase in Covid cases over the next 12-24 months, though.

 

 

[Stivo 110]

1 hour ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

I have to say that I’m at such a low ebb, I tell myself to stop looking at this thread and especially to stop looking at the corona virus news and yet I always look, hoping for some good news, and some light at the end of the tunnel.

Whether it’s my state of mind at the moment but I can see no light at the end of the tunnel, we’re so far away from any resemblance of normality, instead we’re entangled in restrictions and rules  with the continual worry of the restrictions being tightened further.

I read about quarantine hotels, travel bans, the vaccine not being effective, mass unemployment and the knock on effect that has on people’s lives.

Continually hearing/reading that you can’t go there, you can’t do that, you can’t see them is mentally exhausting.

 

I wish I could see an end to the current state of affairs but I can’t. 

To add to the posts above.

 

we remain on track to vaccinate everyone in the priority groups by mid feb.
 

we vaccinated almost 1/2 million people last Saturday.

 

Most people offered the jab are turning up to get it.

 

hopefully in a couple of weeks the data will show a drop in hospitalisations in the elderly ( that’s future good news to look out for)

 

the German report that the vaccine doesn’t work seems to have been a mistake

 

[Buce 11,905]

1 minute ago, Nod.E said:

Jesus

 

It's a good point though. We'll lock down an entire country to reduce deaths and strain on the NHS, all while McDonald's hovers around the top 10 for ad spend in the UK year after year.

 

As a population we are actively encouraged to eat rubbish, which causes excess deaths and puts strain on the NHS. It won't get the same attention as any small increase in Covid cases over the next 12-24 months, though.

 

 

 

Sure.

 

Right message, wrong messenger.

[dsr-burnley 499]

1 minute ago, Nod.E said:

Jesus

 

It's a good point though. We'll lock down an entire country to reduce deaths and strain on the NHS, all while McDonald's hovers around the top 10 for ad spend in the UK year after year.

 

As a population we are actively encouraged to eat rubbish, which causes excess deaths and puts strain on the NHS. It won't get the same attention as any small increase in Covid cases over the next 12-24 months, though.

 

 

Eating rubbish doesn't cause excess deaths, really.  The rate remains at one per person.  People who eat healthily and take exercise still die, they just die of something else - and whatever it is we die of, it's usually something that needs expensive treatment first.  The idea that we can all live healthy lifestyles with no cost to the NHS until we die in bed aged 102 - not realistic.

[David Guiza 2,038]

10 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

Eating rubbish doesn't cause excess deaths, really.  The rate remains at one per person.  People who eat healthily and take exercise still die, they just die of something else - and whatever it is we die of, it's usually something that needs expensive treatment first.  The idea that we can all live healthy lifestyles with no cost to the NHS until we die in bed aged 102 - not realistic.

Having an awful diet and lifestyle clearly causes strain on the NHS even if you only consider it from a financial perspective. 

 

I remember going to a museum, I think it was in Edinburgh, a few years ago and there was a table of pills consumed by one person in their lifetime and it was comfortably the length of two or maybe even three snooker tables. The table highlighted the different points in the person's life, such as when they contracted illness and disease etc. I couldn't quite believe the extent of it. The cost of said tablets must have been astronomical.

 

The cost of medicine increased from £13 billion to £17.4 billion from 2010 to 2016 and I would assume that has increased again in the next half decade. Eating healthy and having a healthier lifestyle is not a guarantee against illness, but it limits the likelihood of requiring medical assistance, both physically and financially, and also gives you a far greater quality of life too. 

[Sol thewall Bamba 8,071]

22 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

Eating rubbish doesn't cause excess deaths, really.  The rate remains at one per person.  People who eat healthily and take exercise still die, they just die of something else - and whatever it is we die of, it's usually something that needs expensive treatment first.  The idea that we can all live healthy lifestyles with no cost to the NHS until we die in bed aged 102 - not realistic.

Obese people are 50% over represented on ventilators because of Covid though, so that's a direct cost to everyone else due to, largely, lifestyle choices. 

[Super_horns 928]

Lack of trust from the BAME community in the vaccine? - a worryingly high number say they will refuse the vaccine (for now)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/16/covid-vaccine-black-people-unlikely-covid-jab-uk

One of the very high risk groups too.

 

On a more positive note it defiantly doe seem like the vaccine roll out is going well so hopefully that will continue without any hold ups.

 

Think they said almost 80% of over 80s had been vaccinated. 

[OrielCaziado 84]

40 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

This govt minister says the UK is suffering so many deaths becuse of an ageing and obese population:

 

 

The words 'pot' and 'kettle' spring to mind.

Wow for a moment I thought I was on the “birds you fancy off the tv” thread 

[Nod.E 2,335]

26 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

Eating rubbish doesn't cause excess deaths, really.  The rate remains at one per person.  People who eat healthily and take exercise still die, they just die of something else - and whatever it is we die of, it's usually something that needs expensive treatment first.  The idea that we can all live healthy lifestyles with no cost to the NHS until we die in bed aged 102 - not realistic.

I usually agree with most of what you say, but not this.

 

If more people eat bad food, more people become unhealthy and have more health complications before they eventually die, weight related or not. That's added stress on the NHS that otherwise wouldn't exist if people suffered less health complications before death.

 

And obesity certainly reduces life expectancy, which is kind of the flavour of the month amid Covid restrictions.

 

 

[z-layrex 2,332]

47 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

This govt minister says the UK is suffering so many deaths becuse of an ageing and obese population:

 

 

The words 'pot' and 'kettle' spring to mind.

You can recognise that the ICU's are full of hambeasts and this country really needs to sort itself out health-wise whilst still being fat yourself.

[Carl the Llama 9,585]

39 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

Eating rubbish doesn't cause excess deaths, really.  The rate remains at one per person.  People who eat healthily and take exercise still die, they just die of something else - and whatever it is we die of, it's usually something that needs expensive treatment first.  The idea that we can all live healthy lifestyles with no cost to the NHS until we die in bed aged 102 - not realistic.

This is an unbelievably bad take.  Of course a nation of unhealthy food and habits is going to experience a higher rate of death at younger ages than a nation of people who eat well and exercise.

Everybody dies, by your logic no death is an excess death because it's one in one out, that's not what the term means though 

[dsr-burnley 499]

3 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

I usually agree with most of what you say, but not this.

 

If more people eat bad food, more people become unhealthy and have more health complications before they eventually die, weight related or not. That's added stress on the NHS that otherwise wouldn't exist if people suffered less health complications before death.

 

And obesity certainly reduces life expectancy, which is kind of the flavour of the month amid Covid restrictions.

 

 

I have no objection to government plans to help people be less fat.  Being less fat would be a good thing - it would be a good thing for me personally and for people in general.  But it wouldn't save the country money and it wouldn't keep the coronavirus beds empty.

 

Who occupies most of the coronavirus beds?  The old.  Why are they old?  Because they ate healthily and didn't die young.  Economic arguments like that are clearly absurd and if taken in isolation are unkind and unfeeling, but the bare fact remains - fat people, en masse so to speak, don't cost the country money and don't cause disproportionate coronavirus stress to the NHS.  If all the fat people who have died young had lived another twenty years, then many more of them would be in coronavirus beds now.

[Buce 11,905]

1 minute ago, dsr-burnley said:

I have no objection to government plans to help people be less fat.  Being less fat would be a good thing - it would be a good thing for me personally and for people in general.  But it wouldn't save the country money and it wouldn't keep the coronavirus beds empty.

 

Who occupies most of the coronavirus beds?  The old.  Why are they old?  Because they ate healthily and didn't die young.  Economic arguments like that are clearly absurd and if taken in isolation are unkind and unfeeling, but the bare fact remains - fat people, en masse so to speak, don't cost the country money and don't cause disproportionate coronavirus stress to the NHS.  If all the fat people who have died young had lived another twenty years, then many more of them would be in coronavirus beds now.

 

Bull.

 

Obesity is a leading cause of degenerative diseases, such as cancer, heart disease and diabetes; treating these diseases puts a huge strain on the NHS.

[z-layrex 2,332]

6 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

I have no objection to government plans to help people be less fat.  Being less fat would be a good thing - it would be a good thing for me personally and for people in general.  But it wouldn't save the country money and it wouldn't keep the coronavirus beds empty.

 

Who occupies most of the coronavirus beds?  The old.  Why are they old?  Because they ate healthily and didn't die young.  Economic arguments like that are clearly absurd and if taken in isolation are unkind and unfeeling, but the bare fact remains - fat people, en masse so to speak, don't cost the country money and don't cause disproportionate coronavirus stress to the NHS.  If all the fat people who have died young had lived another twenty years, then many more of them would be in coronavirus beds now.

I can promise you ICU beds are not full of old people - they don't even get an ICU bed, they die on the wards. Critical Care however is rammed full of fat people and we are ****ing sick of it. Referral after referral of 100kg + people. I have to find 4+ nurses to turn and clean half these patients. Some shifts it's so bad, if you are really fat you get 1 turn a shift.

 

As I lift yet another patient's huge tummy so a colleague can clean in the fat folds to try and stop them smelling like a wet dog I think to myself "how the hell did we get like this as a nation".

Edited 26 January by z-layrex

[Sol thewall Bamba 8,071]

5 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

I have no objection to government plans to help people be less fat.  Being less fat would be a good thing - it would be a good thing for me personally and for people in general.  But it wouldn't save the country money and it wouldn't keep the coronavirus beds empty.

 

Who occupies most of the coronavirus beds?  The old.  Why are they old?  Because they ate healthily and didn't die young.  Economic arguments like that are clearly absurd and if taken in isolation are unkind and unfeeling, but the bare fact remains - fat people, en masse so to speak, don't cost the country money and don't cause disproportionate coronavirus stress to the NHS.  If all the fat people who have died young had lived another twenty years, then many more of them would be in coronavirus beds now.

You ignored my point about obese people being 50% more likely to be on a ventilator, regardless of age...

[dsr-burnley 499]

2 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Bull.

 

Obesity is a leading cause of degenerative diseases, such as cancer, heart disease and diabetes; treating these diseases puts a huge strain on the NHS.

It's off topic and needs a different thread.  But just to say that the generalisation that fat people get ill and die while thin people do not get ill and die, is false. 

 

Plenty of thin people live healthy and independent lives for thirty years on trheir state pension before suffering from dementia and spending ten years in an expensive nursing homes.  Plenty of fat people driop dead without seeing a doctor.  As the old people in coronavirus wards have sadly proved, being thin is no guarantee of not getting coronavirus.

[Nod.E 2,335]

7 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

I have no objection to government plans to help people be less fat.  Being less fat would be a good thing - it would be a good thing for me personally and for people in general.  But it wouldn't save the country money and it wouldn't keep the coronavirus beds empty.

 

Who occupies most of the coronavirus beds?  The old.  Why are they old?  Because they ate healthily and didn't die young.  Economic arguments like that are clearly absurd and if taken in isolation are unkind and unfeeling, but the bare fact remains - fat people, en masse so to speak, don't cost the country money and don't cause disproportionate coronavirus stress to the NHS.  If all the fat people who have died young had lived another twenty years, then many more of them would be in coronavirus beds now.

Not all fat people die young, though. You can survive and be unhealthy at the same time.

[Innovindil 2,916]

8 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

I have no objection to government plans to help people be less fat.  Being less fat would be a good thing - it would be a good thing for me personally and for people in general.  But it wouldn't save the country money and it wouldn't keep the coronavirus beds empty.

 

Who occupies most of the coronavirus beds?  The old.  Why are they old?  Because they ate healthily and didn't die young.  Economic arguments like that are clearly absurd and if taken in isolation are unkind and unfeeling, but the bare fact remains - fat people, en masse so to speak, don't cost the country money and don't cause disproportionate coronavirus stress to the NHS.  If all the fat people who have died young had lived another twenty years, then many more of them would be in coronavirus beds now.

Wtf man. Fatties cause tonnes of problems that cost extra cash. This is coming from a fatty. I don't need people making excuses or changing blatant facts to protect my feelings, or my lifestyle choices. 

[Nod.E 2,335]

2 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

It's off topic and needs a different thread.  But just to say that the generalisation that fat people get ill and die while thin people do not get ill and die, is false. 

 

Plenty of thin people live healthy and independent lives for thirty years on trheir state pension before suffering from dementia and spending ten years in an expensive nursing homes.  Plenty of fat people driop dead without seeing a doctor.  As the old people in coronavirus wards have sadly proved, being thin is no guarantee of not getting coronavirus.

You're moving into exceptionalism now. You're better than that.