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8 hours ago, Webbo said:

I understand that mate, I'd be a liar if I said my confidence hadn't been shaken too. 

 

But where did Man U finish last season? I thought Solkjaer was certain for the sack and deservedly so but he's building something now. Sometime you need to give people a bit of time. 

How long is a bit of time?

 

At this point Rodgers has had 18 months.

 

Solskjær joined Manchester United in Dec 2018.  So he has had one extra month over Rodgers.  I have looked at their results for the 17 games proceeding his 18 month point and there is no run of bad form that comes close to what we have here.  Not even for the entire season has he had a run like ours.  Solskjær team was suffering from been inconsistent, but he was managing to get scalps against the teams at the top end of the table, so he never looked like been on a downward projectory.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019–20_Manchester_United_F.C._season

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019–20_Leicester_City_F.C._season

 

Edited by Chrysalis
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7 hours ago, ttfn said:

I think the number of people actually calling for him to be sacked is actually very small.

 

I think a lot of people - myself included - are sick of being told there’s not a debate to be had about Rodgers’ performance just because we’re in the top 4. 
 

We’re a significantly worse side than we were a year ago and he’s paid twice as much for the privilege.

This sums it up very well, essentially we have gone backwards.  We also cannot ignore what he is been paid, I doubt his salary is a reflection of lower mid table ambition.

 

Would I sack him now? No.

 

In the summer the board needs to make a decision of either backing him, as clearly the current squad and manager is not a working combination, or do they replace the manager.  Or perhaps they lower their ambitions, do neither and accept form that will have us scraping survival.

 

My opinion remains as it was a week or two ago, which is that I dont see Brendan recovering, but I also dont see him been fired soon, he will probably be gone during next autumn.  I dont think he will be our manager at Christmas.

 

I think it will be a on garden leave arrangement, meaning he remains an employee but effectively told to stay at home, so we wouldnt need to pay him a lump some of money.  I obviously prefer my prediction is wrong, and he does somehow recover, as a club of our size cant really afford to spend what would be needed to fire him.

Edited by Chrysalis
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7 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

I think either you don't understand, or are turning a deliberate blind eye.

 

If we were inconsistent all season, or started poorly but ended well, I think everyone here would be fine with finishing 5/6 in the table.

Absolutely agreed. Have said this elsewhere. We, as fans (and particularly those of us that have supported the club for more than 5 years) know that you take the rough with the smooth. But going from 2nd/3rd against Man City, to winning only TWO (2) out of the last 11 games is horrendous. That includes matches against teams in the bottom half of the table, in some cases with less than half the points we do. 

 

The concern is how that bodes for the following season. We've all seen what can happen if you finish strongly but there are those of us worried about what happens if you end badly. There is a reasonable chance that Palace was our last win, making that only 5 wins since Christmas - 17 games. A 29% win record. Average that over a 38 game season and that's around 33 points (11 wins). Based on the last 3 seasons, that puts us anywhere between 13th and 16th. 

 

I tried not to be massively negative with this post. Even if we Europa League, we'll all still tune in (unlikely we can go to games) and cheer the lads on because they're OUR team and they're putting us in a second European competition in 5 years. That makes me immensely proud that some kid in Turkey or Sweden or wherever will know what Leicester is. 

 

But, you can't say it won't be bittersweet. 

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29 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

How long is a bit of time?

 

At this point Rodgers has had 18 months.

 

Solskjær joined Manchester United in Dec 2018.  So he has had one extra month over Rodgers.  I have looked at their results for the 17 games proceeding his 18 month point and there is no run of bad form that comes close to what we have here.  Not even for the entire season has he had a run like ours.  Solskjær team was suffering from been inconsistent, but he was managing to get scalps against the teams at the top end of the table, so he never looked like been on a downward projectory.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019–20_Manchester_United_F.C._season

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019–20_Leicester_City_F.C._season

 

Is our position higher than it was at this stage last season?

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Quite a considerable under-appreciation of just how good the start of our season was. We were ahead of Man City and keeping up with Liverpool until Christmas; arguably the two best club teams in world football on their day. All of that is testament to Rodger's coaching and the raw ability we have in our squad - to match that for half a season is phenomenal. The drop off coincided with being punished by the aforementioned teams - both with vastly more experienced, expense and coaching under their belts. A drop in our confidence was likely and when you haven't spent in the regions of the clubs around you, the depth of the squad really does get called into question. Europe is brilliant for us, full stop. We're still moving in the right direction and changing manager is an awfully bad shout considering everything. 

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4 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

How long is a bit of time?

How long is a piece of string? 

 

Are we in a higher position than we were with 3 games to go than last season? Have we a better GD than at this stage last season? 

 

By any measure we've improved so I think you're being a little hysterical. 

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20 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Is our position higher than it was at this stage last season?

You could have used that argument in favour of Puel tbh.

 

As I said last night whilst never (?) having us in the top 6 we were pushing before the wheels seriously came off and we bottled that, this time we're in top 4/6 but the have dramatically come off and we're bottling it, for me it shows the strength (or lack of) in the league that we've been 3rd for a large part of the season relatively unchallenged.

 

I am not calling for Rodgers to be sacked (Although i'm certainly close to getting equally as frustrated as I was when Puel was in charge) but for his position not to be under scrutiny ideally I wouldn't want to bring Puel into this but for Rodgers to be given what's seen as a free pass in comparison to what Puel got is bang out of order when the situations are very similar and I genuinely don't see a great deal of change or difference between tenures.

 

Rodgers definetly needs to be given an apprasal of some sort to explain his actions and/or comments. It's simply not good enough, hasn't been for some time and arguably getting worse.

 

Edited by Matt
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1 minute ago, Matt said:

You could have used that argument in favour of Puel tbh.

 

As I said last night whilst never (?) having us in the top 6 we were pushing before the wheels seriously came off and we bottled that, this time we're in top 4/6 but the have dramatically come off and we're bottling it, for me it shows the strength (or lack of) in the league that we've been 3rd for a large part of the season relatively unchallenged.

 

I am not calling for Rodgers to be sacked (Although i'm certainly close to getting equally as frustrated as I was when Puel was in charge) but for his position not to be under scrutiny or to be given a free pass in comparison to what Puel got is bang out of order when the situations are very similar and I don't see a great deal of change between tenure.

 

Rodgers definetly needs to be given an apprasal of some sort to explain his actions and/or comments. It's simply not good enough, hasn't been for some time and arguably getting worse.

You and I both know the abuse we suffered for wanting Puel out and he wasn't doing half as well as Rodgers. When Puel was here we were told we should be happy to be 12th, now people are moaning because we're only going to finish 6th.

 

The current form is worrying and I may change my mind but atm Brendans got enough credit in the bank for me to give him a bit of slack. 

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8 minutes ago, Matt said:

You could have used that argument in favour of Puel tbh.

 

As I said last night whilst never (?) having us in the top 6 we were pushing before the wheels seriously came off and we bottled that, this time we're in top 4/6 but the have dramatically come off and we're bottling it, for me it shows the strength (or lack of) in the league that we've been 3rd for a large part of the season relatively unchallenged.

 

I am not calling for Rodgers to be sacked (Although i'm certainly close to getting equally as frustrated as I was when Puel was in charge) but for his position not to be under scrutiny or to be given a free pass in comparison to what Puel got is bang out of order when the situations are very similar and I don't see a great deal of change between tenure.

 

Rodgers definetly needs to be given an apprasal of some sort to explain his actions and/or comments. It's simply not good enough, hasn't been for some time and arguably getting worse.

 

Ideally I wouldn't want to bring Puel into this but I genuinely don't see alot of difference.

 

Rogers deserves benefit of the doubt for taking us into Europe.

 

Puel didn't get that because he took over a middling Premier League team and a year later we were still a middling Premier League team that played the dullest football imaginable.

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4 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

Rogers deserves benefit of the doubt for taking us into Europe.

 

Puel didn't get that because he took over a middling Premier League team and a year later we were still a middling Premier League team that played the dullest football imaginable.

Table position aside what's different?

 

You talk about a middling Premier League team, @Webbo says we were told we should have been happy with 12th (I admittedly used it to strenghten my arguments against Puel), My issue wasn't table position under Puel it was dull football, my issue now isn't table position or how we're dropping, it's the dull football.

 

Edited by Matt
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Right, now I've had time to think about it, I can rationally put what I want. The Champions League this season has all but gone after last night, a ridiculous situation that we've gone from 2nd after 21 games to it being out of our hands by the 36th game. He has to deliver Europa League as a minimum now- a win over Sheffield United will guarantee it.

 

We need to take it seriously and start next season well. If neither thing happens, we need to start questioning where we are going and what we actually want.

 

It isn't inconceivable we could finish 8th this season which would be an outrage given our position throughout. Failure to get European football of any kind would make this the biggest wasted opportunity in living memory.

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2 minutes ago, Matt said:

Table position aside what's different?

 

@Webbo says we were told we should have been happy with 12th (I admittedly used it to strenghten my arguments against Puel), My issue wasn't table position under Puel it was dull football, my issue now isn't table position or how we're dropping, it's the dull football.

 

Table position is quite important. 

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Just now, Fightforever said:

If we don't get europe at all this season which is unlikely then he deserves the sack otherwise he stays on and gets given another 10 games

He won't be sacked though, it's way too expensive.

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3 minutes ago, Corky said:

Right, now I've had time to think about it, I can rationally put what I want. The Champions League this season has all but gone after last night, a ridiculous situation that we've gone from 2nd after 21 games to it being out of our hands by the 36th game. He has to deliver Europa League as a minimum now- a win over Sheffield United will guarantee it.

 

We need to take it seriously and start next season well. If neither thing happens, we need to start questioning where we are going and what we actually want.

 

It isn't inconceivable we could finish 8th this season which would be an outrage given our position throughout. Failure to get European football of any kind would make this the biggest wasted opportunity in living memory.

Well measured this.


I also think finishing 8th and not winning a trophy would mean he has failed to hit any targets the board set, meaning clear grounds for dismissal.


However as @Abrasive fox has alluded to, the board panicked when we were flying and offered him a new contract to warn off any potential new suitors. The problem is if we finish 8th it'll cost an absolute fortune to move him + his team so no doubt unless he left of his own doing he'd be guaranteed the job next season.

 

As long as we are in Europe in some shape, whilst disappointing it isn't the top comp, it's still a good achievement. 

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4 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Table position is quite important. 

Correct it is, but i'm sure even if Puel had got us 6th or higher you wouldn't have changed you opinion, the situation here is hardly any different, certainly not how we're dropping and certainly not when it comes to the dull as dishwater football.

 

Parallels can be made in many ways.

 

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Just now, Beechey said:

He won't be sacked though, it's way too expensive.

Sacking Puel, Shakespeare, Ranieri or Sven wasn't cheap either. If the owners think its necessary they'll do it. 

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56 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

How long is a bit of time?

 

At this point Rodgers has had 18 months.

 

Solskjær joined Manchester United in Dec 2018.  So he has had one extra month over Rodgers.  I have looked at their results for the 17 games proceeding his 18 month point and there is no run of bad form that comes close to what we have here.  Not even for the entire season has he had a run like ours.  Solskjær team was suffering from been inconsistent, but he was managing to get scalps against the teams at the top end of the table, so he never looked like been on a downward projectory.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019–20_Manchester_United_F.C._season

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019–20_Leicester_City_F.C._season

 

Solskjaer's job has probably been saved by Bruno Fernandes. He was able to bring in a world class player in January for a fee of £67m, that's not something we can do. He also inherited one of the best squads in Europe (De Gea, Rashford, Martial, Pogba etc). Also, you look at Man United's squad and resources and then you look at our's and you'd say we're overachieving and they've underachieved until now. 

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Guest An Sionnach

I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a meeting with Top who will be less than happy in seeing his club embarrassed so badly on live TV. He will be warned about his future behaviour and given the brutal kicking he has received on here and in the media we might see a change of attitude.

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1 minute ago, Matt said:

Correct it is, but i'm sure even if Puel had got us 6th or higher you wouldn't have changed you opinion, the situation here is hardly any different, certainly not how we're dropping and certainly not when it comes to the dull as dishwater football.

If Puel had got us to 6th I'd have bit my tongue, for a club like ours that's a very decent season. 

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