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Pearson sacked...

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On 22/07/2020 at 17:10, Silva Fox said:

Can see him going to Forest


 

I might be finished with him if this is true.... I don’t see a way back from this...

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22 hours ago, MattFox said:


Really can’t see him working with the owner they’ve got up there.

 

Would be a disaster from the start

Yup, add to that clubs like Charlton, Hull, Watford........

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3 hours ago, Leicesterpool said:

He was approached before many years ago, but some reason it never happened I think Karanka got the job instead. Any championship job as long as he got Shakey on his side he could do a decent job with. It's also strange his old club Middlesbrough have never considered him.

Was going to say he could work at Birmingham but looks like karanka is going to beat him to that one as well. 

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4 hours ago, Leicesterpool said:

He was approached before many years ago, but some reason it never happened I think Karanka got the job instead. Any championship job as long as he got Shakey on his side he could do a decent job with. It's also strange his old club Middlesbrough have never considered him.

Lmao, still getting my head around why Karanka was ever rated as a manager. He just looks like a confused owl.

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On 22/07/2020 at 08:05, Foxhateram said:

Re read what I wrote. :schmike:

I did...it seems to me you’re saying that Ranieri fell into a good situation and was lucky...but then again it wouldn’t be the first time I have a problem with reading comprehension :whistle:

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On 22/07/2020 at 08:26, Cardiff_Fox said:

Really hope it continues with Claudio. Seems to have a habit of kick-starting teams into incredible runs of form and then it going very bad, very quick. 

I think he often makes teams overachieve...which bites him later on...

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9 hours ago, Leicesterpool said:

He was approached before many years ago, but some reason it never happened I think Karanka got the job instead. Any championship job as long as he got Shakey on his side he could do a decent job with. It's also strange his old club Middlesbrough have never considered him.

Not sure where your confidence comes from here unless you consider 11th (having been relegated from PL) with Hull and leaving Derby with them 20th in the Championship is considered a 'decent job'.

 

Maybe we have different definitions of success, but I'd consider league position to be a fairly objective barometer and anyone who thinks that Hull and Derby teams should have been as low as 11 and 20 needs to give their head a wobble.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Sionnach gorm said:

I did...it seems to me you’re saying that Ranieri fell into a good situation and was lucky...but then again it wouldn’t be the first time I have a problem with reading comprehension :whistle:

He was lucky to take on a side that had such incredible form and momentum, and a set up ready for a top 6 challenge. The aforementioned players were scouted under Pearson and his team. 

 

As I said before, we were in top 4 form for the last part of the season before, had scouted the main players that made a big impact and the top sides were in transition. The perfect storm was already set. 

 

Ranieri played a huge part in keeping that momentum, don't get me wrong, his substitutions at important times and decision making regarding the set up for each game were fantastic. But what he did in the season after, showed that he was unable to identify that a unique style was what won us the league, and not slow, keep ball football. Liverpool, Man City etc have all been successful since, with a fast and direct style, we needed to build on the style we had, not throw it away. 

 

The reason I questioned your reading skills is because you implied that I said Ranieri was a poor manager and then started quoting his previous successes. I never said that.... But anyone who thinks he wasn't lucky to take on the set up here, is underestimating the investment and determination for success that comes from the top. 

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8 hours ago, The People's Hero said:

Not sure where your confidence comes from here unless you consider 11th (having been relegated from PL) with Hull and leaving Derby with them 20th in the Championship is considered a 'decent job'.

 

Maybe we have different definitions of success, but I'd consider league position to be a fairly objective barometer and anyone who thinks that Hull and Derby teams should have been as low as 11 and 20 needs to give their head a wobble.

 

 

I don't think it's fair to judge him on either of those tenures, given the Derby squad was made entirely of players he didn't sign, with Hull he made decent signings and stopped the rot (broke the club record for away games without defeat IIRC?) and in both cases there was some seriously screwy stuff going on up-top - especially in Derby's case. What sort of owner feels the need to spy on their own training sessions? I honestly get the feeling that Pearson was lucky to ever work with our owners, because every other one he's worked under since has been an even looser cannon than he is. For that reason, him going to Forest wouldn't surprise me one bit. :dunno:

 

The OH Leuven stint is a better example if we want to question his credentials. He had a say in the players that they got in, and OHL went from promotion favourites to fighting for their lives.

 

But really, his record with us is exemplary, and acrimonious departure aside he has restored some of his managerial reputation with this Watford stint, whatever happens to them now he's been booted. For me, he walks into any championship side that wants him this summer, and will succeed if him and Shakey can actually go and build their own team.

Edited by OntarioFox

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10 hours ago, Crazy Kop Corner said:

He's surely destined for F*rest.

 

 the carnage on here if that ever happened ...

 

 

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Watford Owners are just stupid for getting involved in Dressing room discussions between Manager and players regardless of what was said. The Boardroom is the place for those discussions and actions.

 

When it comes to setting up a club Pearson has no equals. He's also a players manager in that he motivates team to do better personally. From which the team obviously benifits. It was unfortunate what happened here but I still feel the owners have a lot of respect for him, given what he achieved here. He has a stubborn nature and I feel finds it difficult to see to accept an alternative point of view. As demonstrated by our near relegation in our great escape.

Many of us could see what was wrong with the team so why couldn't he see it sooner. That was his blind spot. You have to be able to adapt to games as they unfold. Which Raniere, Puel and Rogers are better at.

With our league win Raniere got lucky with the situation he inherited, But you can't say he was a lucky Manager as you don't get lucky for 9 Months of the season. He was smart enough to change very little and keeping the players happy. While brilliantly handling the media. Something Pearson struggles

with.

As much as I love him I think the Club he set up has outgrown him. And will continue to search for Managers in that 10% of Managers at the top of the game.

Manager's are generally on a hiding to nothing with modern Owners, Because its their Money they think they should dictate everything from player recruitment to the running of the club. Then blame the manager when things don't go right.

Which is why we are so lucky to have the Owners we have. I've every confidence they'll do whatever it takes to keep us challenging at the top of the table. 

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12 hours ago, Crazy Kop Corner said:

He's surely destined for F*rest. 

 

 

 

 

 

Like a stab to my heart. Please stop this kind of talk!!!

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10 hours ago, Foxhateram said:

He was lucky to take on a side that had such incredible form and momentum, and a set up ready for a top 6 challenge. The aforementioned players were scouted under Pearson and his team. 

 

As I said before, we were in top 4 form for the last part of the season before, had scouted the main players that made a big impact and the top sides were in transition. The perfect storm was already set. 

 

Ranieri played a huge part in keeping that momentum, don't get me wrong, his substitutions at important times and decision making regarding the set up for each game were fantastic. But what he did in the season after, showed that he was unable to identify that a unique style was what won us the league, and not slow, keep ball football. Liverpool, Man City etc have all been successful since, with a fast and direct style, we needed to build on the style we had, not throw it away. 

 

The reason I questioned your reading skills is because you implied that I said Ranieri was a poor manager and then started quoting his previous successes. I never said that.... But anyone who thinks he wasn't lucky to take on the set up here, is underestimating the investment and determination for success that comes from the top. 

cobblers. in the first few games of the title winning season  we leaked goals like a sieve. Ranieri identified the problem  and rectified it, if he hadn't we would not have won the title. Sure he had a good base to build from, he didn't start from  scratch but neither did he inherit a title winning team all nicely wrapped from Pearson. Retrospectively rewriting history to make nige look good 4 years later is very irritating. Pearson is a very good EFL manager and struggles in the prem.

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8 minutes ago, Swiss_tony said:

cobblers. in the first few games of the title winning season  we leaked goals like a sieve. Ranieri identified the problem  and rectified it, if he hadn't we would not have won the title. Sure he had a good base to build from, he didn't start from  scratch but neither did he inherit a title winning team all nicely wrapped from Pearson. Retrospectively rewriting history to make nige look good 4 years later is very irritating. Pearson is a very good EFL manager and struggles in the prem.

Not really fair to say. He’s had one full season and we finished 14th which was a success at the time. Watford were well adrift when he took over and he was sacked with them out of the relegation zone, which given his remit can be loosely attributed as a success. 
 

Personally, I think mid table Premier League is probably his ceiling but it’s disingenuous to say he struggles because he’s not really managed in it much and when he has he’s done well 

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3 minutes ago, Stadt said:

Not really fair to say. He’s had one full season and we finished 14th which was a success at the time. Watford were well adrift when he took over and he was sacked with them out of the relegation zone, which given his remit can be loosely attributed as a success. 
 

Personally, I think mid table Premier League is probably his ceiling but it’s disingenuous to say he struggles because he’s not really managed in it much and when he has he’s done well 

Would be interested to see his combined points per game between our 14/15 season and the games he managed Watford.

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16 minutes ago, Swiss_tony said:

cobblers. in the first few games of the title winning season  we leaked goals like a sieve. Ranieri identified the problem  and rectified it, if he hadn't we would not have won the title. Sure he had a good base to build from, he didn't start from  scratch but neither did he inherit a title winning team all nicely wrapped from Pearson. Retrospectively rewriting history to make nige look good 4 years later is very irritating. Pearson is a very good EFL manager and struggles in the prem.

0 evidence of that. Watford have been in top half of the table form since he took over. 

 

As already mentioned, Fuchs and Simpson were scouted by Pearson's team. Do you think he'd have just not bothered playing them? I'll remind you that Ranieri started the season with De Leat and Schlupp, leaving Kante, Fuchs and Danny on the bench...

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4 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Would be interested to see his combined points per game between our 14/15 season and the games he managed Watford.

1.05 with us and 1.22 with Watford. Watford PPG extrapolated over a season is 46 points

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11 minutes ago, Foxhateram said:

0 evidence of that. Watford have been in top half of the table form since he took over. 

 

As already mentioned, Fuchs and Simpson were scouted by Pearson's team. Do you think he'd have just not bothered playing them? I'll remind you that Ranieri started the season with De Leat and Schlupp, leaving Kante, Fuchs and Danny on the bench...

If indeed Watford have had top half table form since Pearson took over, a huge part of that would have been your standard new manager bounce. Once those 5/6 games were over they weren't much kop at all and whether Pearson had been sacked or not would go into the final game highly likely to go down. Hes quite obviously struggled in both his Prem stints.

 

Simpson certainly was scouted by Pearsons team... the season before! and after a dozen or so games was dumped back out of the side. Definitely not a Pearson favourite so quite likely hed loyally stick with one of his old faves de laet for a lot longer than Ranieri did.

 

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On 22/07/2020 at 16:28, Gubbins said:

Im not sure you're really grasping the idea of chaos/butterfly theory. The perfect storm wasnt already there as Ranieri is an integral part of it. Without him all sorts of things would have happened differently. Do we win the league with Ritchie de laet at right back?By starting the season playing 3 at the back? Does whoever Pearson signs instead of inler stop Kante and Drinkwater becoming a partnership? Just cos the ingredients for winning the title were there does not mean theyl be put together correctly. You change anything remotely significant about that season and the title win doesn't happen. Even if you subscribe to the ludicrous theory that Ranieri did next to nothing and was just wheeled out to say funny stuff to the press every week then that was exactly the right thing to do and having a different manager do something else completely changes the course of the season.

True this is, we would have won the treble if big Nige had stayed.

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1 hour ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said:

You don't like him that's fine, I do, so we'll never find middle ground and you won't with anyone else who likes him because you'll undermine all his achievements and double down on all his failures. I love the guy but I can see where he's clearly made bad decisions in his career, managerial and otherwise, but I can also see that he is an absolute God for Leicester City because he dragged us out of league one and set us up for our greatest ever achievement. Do I think Pearson would have won the Premier league with us? 99% not, would we have won the Premier league without him being our previous manager and putting in place what he did? 110% not. And that's what it boils down to for me, he set everything in motion, he not only dragged us from our lowest ebb but he laid in place our greatest ever achievement. I just don't get people who hate him, it's bloody bizarre imo. 

I dont like his charisma free media persona true enough but I certainly dont hate him and  have all the respect in the world for him getting us into the prem and what he set up prior to the title win. I do though find the extreme cultish devotion and belief that he was and still is near flawless as a manager by some posters on here as strangely bizarre. Saying that he benefitted (like most managers do) from a new manager bounce at Watford,  has largely struggled at Prem level or that he probably would have gotten rid of Simpson if he had stayed are hardly controversial opinions are they?

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