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Premier League 2020/21 Thread

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55 minutes ago, ARTY_FOX said:

If the game continues why they check for simulation does that mean they just take the free kick anyway? 

Yep, nothing else changes to keep the game flowing, and the simulator gets retrospectively booked. Does it again he’s off. 

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2 hours ago, Blarmy said:

If I was in charge I would:

 

1) Bin VAR off other than for checking penalty decisions and looking for simulation. The “simu-checks” could take place whilst the game was continuing, so no hold ups. 
 

Simulation would get the player booked every time. Simulation would be categorised as “ending up on the deck when you didn’t need to” and would be phrased exactly like that in the rule book.  The reason for the bookings would be displayed on the big screens.

 

2) Add mandatory off-pitch treatment times if a player appears to be in pain for any reason. 7 minutes sounds about right.

 

3) Mic the refs up rugby style.

 

4) Ban substitutions after 80 minutes. No exceptions.

 

5) Give refs better training but also “Accountability Reviews” and also make them take a quarterly fitness test - fail that and no PL reffing.  Not worked al this out yet but something like a timed ascent of Pen-Y-Fan with a backpack full of whistles and shaving foam. These fitness tests would be televised at prime time on terrestrial channels. 

 

6) etc.

I've said for a while, this isn't a VAR problem this a referee problem. If we just take yesterdays games it wouldn't be a stretch to consider them either incompetent or bribed (I don't think it's this). And the most frustrating thing is these massive mistakes have a cost for clubs like Fulham fighting for every point. But as we know it's not just those directly effected it also effects those around the teams those mistakes benefit. Millions of pounds, careers of managers and players, all rely on these incompetent under trained people to do their jobs right. At some point people (especially pundits on programs like MOTD) have to point their fingers at refs and ask, what are you doing? Get them on the program, ask them directly. Having them hiding away untouchable exacerbates the feeling of no repercussions. Since that is never going to happen I 100% agree mic them up on the pitch. I'd have it so only the captains can communicate with the refs and they can ask directly (like during that WBA game why) the ref didn't feel that was a pen'. And he has to explain. Have transparency of communication and do it like adults. I don't feel like these are radical ideas. 

 

So yeah binning off VAR is a good start. If they can't do their jobs normally VAR is only going to highlight their incompetence and make things worse as we're seeing.

 

If a captain swears at a ref or is rude or whatever send them to a sin bin for 10 minutes. The problem with doing that for diving (though ideally I agree) is we're back to the refs doing their jobs right. How angry would you/we be if Vardy gets clipped and goes down and the ref thinks its a dive. We've gone from what should be a pen' to losing our striker for 7 mins. 

 

People talk about VARs off-side lines not being perfect, but lets say there is a system that is perfect. It's almost certainly possible if somebody wants to invest in it. Not only is it perfect but it's instant. Would people be okay with that?  

 

Edited by Hoopla10
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You wonder who came up with the decision to rule out goals for such tight offsides and this handball rule?

I cannot believe there were people complaining before about such goals ?

As I say must make the assistants feel bad and as if they have made an error which they haven’t.
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1 minute ago, Hoopla10 said:

I've said for a while, this isn't a VAR problem this a referee problem. If we just take yesterdays games it wouldn't be a stretch to consider them either incompetent or bribed (I don't think it's this). And the most frustrating thing is these massive mistakes have a cost for clubs like Fulham fighting for every point. But as we know it's not just those directly effected it also effects those around the teams those mistakes benefit. Millions of pounds, careers of managers and players, all rely on these incompetent under trained people to do their jobs right. At some point people (especially pundits on programs like MOTD) have to point their fingers at refs and ask, what are you doing? Get them on the program, ask them directly. Having them hiding away untouchable exacerbates the feeling of no repercussions. Since that is never going to happen I 100% agree mic them up on the pitch. I'd have it so only the captains can communicate with the refs and they can ask directly (like during that WBA game why) the ref didn't feel that was a pen'. And he has to explain. Have transparency of communication and do it like adults. I don't feel like these are radical ideas. 

 

So yeah binning off VAR is a good start. If they can't do their jobs normally VAR is only going to highlight their incompetence and make things worse as we're seeing.

 

If a captain swears at a ref or is rude or whatever send them to a sin bin for 10 minutes. The problem with doing that for diving (though ideally I agree) is we're back to the refs doing their jobs right. How angry would you/we be if Vardy gets clipped and goes down and the ref thinks its a dive. We've gone from what should be a pen' to losing our striker for 7 mins. 

 

People talk about VARs off-side lines not being perfect, but lets say there is a system that is perfect. It's almost certainly possible if somebody wants to invest in it. Not only is it perfect but it's instant. Would people be okay with that?  

 


What big mistake was there? 

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26 minutes ago, Aus Fox said:

The best one recently was a Wellington Player being sent off against MacArthur.

Western United have been on the receiving end of a couple of absolute howlers recently too. Berisha has had two goals ruled out that there was nothing in, including one where there was a soft foul, but it was at least 2 minutes before the ball went in the net and not even close to being in the same phase of play. 

So I'm watching Adelaide v Newcastle now and there was a very contentious moment where it looks like the Adelaide player was accidentally clipped and went down. 10 seconds VAR and they decided to stick with the refs call of no penalty. If that's in the prem then it'd be looked at for 2 or 3 minutes at every angle in ultra slow motion.

 

It's just consistently better in the A league for me.

 

I don't doubt there'll be the odd rubbish use of it, which will be down to the officials on the day. For me though, generally the A league officials use the technology much better than the prem officials.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:


What big mistake was there? 

Having a goal disallowed. I'm not just aiming their incompetence on the pitch but also off where somebody agreed that is considered a handball offence. Where in one game (on the same night) Kante's arms raised away from his body and in a pretty unnatural position isn't a handball and yet arm by your side is.   

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5 minutes ago, filbertway said:

So I'm watching Adelaide v Newcastle now and there was a very contentious moment where it looks like the Adelaide player was accidentally clipped and went down. 10 seconds VAR and they decided to stick with the refs call of no penalty. If that's in the prem then it'd be looked at for 2 or 3 minutes at every angle in ultra slow motion.

 

It's just consistently better in the A league for me.

 

I don't doubt there'll be the odd rubbish use of it, which will be down to the officials on the day. For me though, generally the A league officials use the technology much better than the prem officials.

 

 

Bet your refs have something about them.

 

Refs here are soft and idiotic who will only see black and white.

 

All prem players are athletes yet the tiniest clip and they go down, Prem refs would give it but most people would know the player has gone down easy and would sod it off.

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11 minutes ago, Hoopla10 said:

I've said for a while, this isn't a VAR problem this a referee problem. If we just take yesterdays games it wouldn't be a stretch to consider them either incompetent or bribed (I don't think it's this). And the most frustrating thing is these massive mistakes have a cost for clubs like Fulham fighting for every point. But as we know it's not just those directly effected it also effects those around the teams those mistakes benefit. Millions of pounds, careers of managers and players, all rely on these incompetent under trained people to do their jobs right. At some point people (especially pundits on programs like MOTD) have to point their fingers at refs and ask, what are you doing? Get them on the program, ask them directly. Having them hiding away untouchable exacerbates the feeling of no repercussions. Since that is never going to happen I 100% agree mic them up on the pitch. I'd have it so only the captains can communicate with the refs and they can ask directly (like during that WBA game why) the ref didn't feel that was a pen'. And he has to explain. Have transparency of communication and do it like adults. I don't feel like these are radical ideas. 

 

So yeah binning off VAR is a good start. If they can't do their jobs normally VAR is only going to highlight their incompetence and make things worse as we're seeing.

 

If a captain swears at a ref or is rude or whatever send them to a sin bin for 10 minutes. The problem with doing that for diving (though ideally I agree) is we're back to the refs doing their jobs right. How angry would you/we be if Vardy gets clipped and goes down and the ref thinks its a dive. We've gone from what should be a pen' to losing our striker for 7 mins. 

 

People talk about VARs off-side lines not being perfect, but lets say there is a system that is perfect. It's almost certainly possible if somebody wants to invest in it. Not only is it perfect but it's instant. Would people be okay with that?  

 

In that circumstance, we’d get the pen but Vardy would get booked retrospectively.  You’re playing the game the old way but also punishing cheating. You could even tweak it - in that circumstance the player gets an immediate red.

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33 minutes ago, Blarmy said:

Yep, nothing else changes to keep the game flowing, and the simulator gets retrospectively booked. Does it again he’s off. 

So free kick gets taken they score. Guys got a yellow but they're 1-0 up? 

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33 minutes ago, Hoopla10 said:

Having a goal disallowed. I'm not just aiming their incompetence on the pitch but also off where somebody agreed that is considered a handball offence. Where in one game (on the same night) Kante's arms raised away from his body and in a pretty unnatural position isn't a handball and yet arm by your side is.   

But that's nothing to do with VAR and everything to do with the current handball rule, right? VAR worked perfectly in that instance - a goal was scored that looked perfectly good, but the ref missed the handball in the build up, the VAR spotted it and the goal was correctly ruled out - based on the current rules of the game re: attacking handballs. 

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16 minutes ago, ARTY_FOX said:

So free kick gets taken they score. Guys got a yellow but they're 1-0 up? 

Yep. As opposed to before VAR (which is wrecking the game in its current guise) when they scored and the player didn’t get booked.

 

Add in all the times the goal isn’t scored, but the player gets booked 5 minutes later. Would be an amazing sight, named and shamed and now booked with no reward for his team. 
 

Throw in a few sending offs with no reward and cheating will quickly be eradicated.

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47 minutes ago, jmono84 said:

Bet your refs have something about them.

 

Refs here are soft and idiotic who will only see black and white.

 

All prem players are athletes yet the tiniest clip and they go down, Prem refs would give it but most people would know the player has gone down easy and would sod it off.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Football ref’s in the uk are just the blokes no one picked at school for footie, not even break and lunchtime. They were the perennial losers. They have an inherent hatred of football and footballers in general. They are just poor from top to bottom. 

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24 minutes ago, Blarmy said:

Yep. As opposed to before VAR (which is wrecking the game in its current guise) when they scored and the player didn’t get booked.

 

Add in all the times the goal isn’t scored, but the player gets booked 5 minutes later. Would be an amazing sight, named and shamed and now booked with no reward for his team. 
 

Throw in a few sending offs with no reward and cheating will quickly be eradicated.

But it's still worth diving then if it gets you a goal? 

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16 minutes ago, ARTY_FOX said:

But it's still worth diving then if it gets you a goal? 

I said penalties would still be checked, so the best you’re getting is a free kick, which has an outside chance of going in. But you’re definitely getting booked.

 

In fact, thinking about it, there’s enough time for “wall-worthy” free kicks to do the check before the free kick is taken - so these could be handled the same as penalty shouts.

 

Everything else, where a free kick is taken quickly, review during play and retrospectively book if simulation occurred. 

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36 minutes ago, Blarmy said:

I said penalties would still be checked, so the best you’re getting is a free kick, which has an outside chance of going in. But you’re definitely getting booked.

 

In fact, thinking about it, there’s enough time for “wall-worthy” free kicks to do the check before the free kick is taken - so these could be handled the same as penalty shouts.

 

Everything else, where a free kick is taken quickly, review during play and retrospectively book if simulation occurred. 

But if the quick free kick results in a goal, then the player gets booked for simulation, you've been cheated, it's been acknowledged and still allowed. A booking for a goal isn't much of a deterrent. 

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VAR isn't the issue, it all comes down to the incompetence and the inconsistency of those who are implementing it plus having massively outdated rules that were based around not having technology to scrutinise every play.

 

that Fulham goal last night, going to the latter of the law, was correctly ruled out as a goal was scored directly after an accidental handball. The problem is that everybody and their dog knows that it shouldn't be ruled out.

 

Again, with the offside calls, the rule says if you are past the last man you are offside. The problem is that the VAR team seem to pick and choose where they want the line to start.

 

Then you have the defensive handballs, which in my opinion is the biggest problem as there is zero consistency. We would all agree that Ndidi's against Arsenal was a peno as his hands were not in a natural position. but then you look at Kante's handball from last night and from my point of view, his hands were away from his body not in a natural position, so why was that not given as pen?

 

The rulemakers have changed the rules so many times in the past couple of seasons that literally nobody knows what is going on, so the officials just largely make it up as they go along.

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55 minutes ago, ARTY_FOX said:

But if the quick free kick results in a goal, then the player gets booked for simulation, you've been cheated, it's been acknowledged and still allowed. A booking for a goal isn't much of a deterrent. 

Worse than now, where you’ve still been cheated and there is no punishment? And how many quick free kicks that don’t require a goal result in goals? Hardly any.

 

In fact, it’s this type of simulation that’s the worst, as it happens so much. Every time there’s a tussle now, one player goes down and it’s an almost guaranteed free kick. 

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3 hours ago, Super_horns said:
You wonder who came up with the decision to rule out goals for such tight offsides and this handball rule?

I cannot believe there were people complaining before about such goals ?

As I say must make the assistants feel bad and as if they have made an error which they haven’t.

the offsides thing is ridiculous

 

shoulders should never be offside

 

if your level then its onside. and it should be a clear body length offside, advantage should be with the attacker

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27 minutes ago, Blarmy said:

Worse than now, where you’ve still been cheated and there is no punishment? And how many quick free kicks that don’t require a goal result in goals? Hardly any.

 

In fact, it’s this type of simulation that’s the worst, as it happens so much. Every time there’s a tussle now, one player goes down and it’s an almost guaranteed free kick. 

But why should they still get a free kick in a good position? Or for instance 93rd minute Vardy is running onto a ball with a defender and the defender just falls over as they all seem to do now. Vardy is denied a goal scoring opportunity but the defender gets the free kick. They launch one last attack from the free kick and we lose. The defenders saved them the game with a dive that results in them winning and only gets a yellow :dunno: punishment doesn't fit the crime 

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Too many of these tight decisions are going the way of the big clubs.

 

Both West Brom and Fulham were robbed last night. It's a joke, It should be a panel of 3 or 5 making the call .

one person is open to curruption.

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4 minutes ago, Clever Fox said:

Too many of these tight decisions are going the way of the big clubs.

 

Both West Brom and Fulham were robbed last night. It's a joke, It should be a panel of 3 or 5 making the call .

one person is open to curruption.

Both decisions were correct. In regards to the West Brom one in particular, would you prefer a clear offside not to be corrected?

 

The Fulham one is harsh but is handball. Everyone knows if the ball hits an attackers hand/arm in the build up to a goal it’s handball regardless of intent or position of the arms. It’s how it’s been done all season.

 

It would have been a scandal if either of those goals were given to be honest.

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1 minute ago, peach0000 said:

Both decisions were correct. In regards to the West Brom one in particular, would you prefer a clear offside not to be corrected?

 

The Fulham one is harsh but is handball. Everyone knows if the ball hits an attackers hand/arm in the build up to a goal it’s handball regardless of intent or position of the arms. It’s how it’s been done all season.

 

It would have been a scandal if either of those goals were given to be honest.

Exactly. It's the rule that needs changing for the Fulham one. 

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