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Premier League 2020/21 Thread

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45 minutes ago, Gubbins said:

Lance Armstrong was regularly tested as well...

Huge difference between the energy our title winners expended and Liverpool. Plus Liverpool have been playing at this intensity for about 3 seasons incl deep runs in the champions league. Bielsas high energy teams are renowned for dropping off towards the end of seasons. Pochettinos spurs (collectively younger than Liverpool I think) would drop off in multiple games during a season and in his final months just collapsed completely leading to his sacking. Liverpool are far more intense in their pressing than either of those examples and roughly about a dozen of the same players just havent really tired in 3 years. Maybe it is conspiracy nonsense but it's at the very least a bit freaky.


On the flip side, maybe Liverpool’s fitness/conditioning coaches, along with physios and doctors are just the best in the business. Or maybe they sign players who have the potential to be ultra-efficient at procession oxygen, that wouldn’t be an unreasonable trait to look for in a player.

 

Minor differences in training regimes, recovery strategies etc could have a massive impact.

 

Liverpool take their chances, so they rarely (over the past 3 seasons) chase a game. Obviously tonight they did and it does happen, but not nearly as much as most other teams. Running is one thing, but they’ve often already got their lead so it isn’t as important to be able to use technical ability when they’re actually running on empty.
 

How easy is it to sprint when you think you’ve nothing left? It’s doable. The hard part is being able to use your skill (passing/shooting) when you’re tired. If you’ve already got the lead, you can let the other team play and press them. 
 

‘IF’ there was any doubt of PEDs. Let’s also remember that new ways of blood-doping can’t be tested until they’ve been proven and the tests are ratified by the governing bodies. The testers are always well behind the curve on this. This in turn means that’s even though it may be immoral. Until the method is found, deemed illegal and testable... it’s actually not against the rules. 
 

Edit: I’ll just caveat this with the fact I despise Liverpool as much as the next football fan. 
 

 

Edited by Leeds Fox
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4 minutes ago, Leeds Fox said:


On the flip side, maybe Liverpool’s fitness/conditioning coaches, along with physios and doctors are just the best in the business. Or maybe they sign players who have the potential to be ultra-efficient at procession oxygen, that wouldn’t be an unreasonable trait to look for in a player.

 

Minor differences in training regimes, recovery strategies etc could have a massive impact.

 

Liverpool take their chances, so they rarely (over the past 3 seasons) chase a game. Obviously tonight they did and it does happen, but not nearly as much as most other teams. Running is one thing, but they’ve often already got their lead so it isn’t as important to be able to use technical ability when they’re actually running on empty.
 

How easy is it to sprint when you think you’ve nothing left? It’s doable. The hard part is being able to use your skill (passing/shooting) when you’re tired. If you’ve already got the lead, you can let the other team play and press them. 
 

‘IF’ there was any doubt of PEDs. Let’s also remember that new ways of blood-doping can’t be tested until they’ve been proven and the tests are ratified by the governing bodies. The testers are always well behind the curve on this. This in turn means that’s even though it may be immoral. Until the method is found, deemed illegal and testable... it’s actually not against the rules. 
 

Edit: I’ll just caveat this with the fact I despise Liverpool as much as the next football fan. 
 

 

I'd argue the opposite Liverpool created 18 shots tonight, often its above 20. high pressing teams create these endless chances as they get the ball back so quickly.I'd also argue its not normal in the 90th minute to be able to go full sprint at the same speed as the first I have never bought that argument,  it goes against natural tiring of players late in games even if fit.Again without proof, we must assume legally its just  groundbreaking sports science rather than anything else.But I know how uneasy I feel about it right now, it doesn't feel right.

 

Some interesting info below on athletes caught years by testers as you said after the event. 2012 was a doped up olympics its as clear as day now.Just as Armstrong and Jones and co were caught years after the event as I predicted they would be.

 

https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1100011/makhloufi-subject-to-doping-probe-france

 

this is a reminder 8 years after the olympics how one athlete after another is being caught years later.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-doping-russia-savinova/savinova-stripped-of-london-games-800m-gold-for-doping-idUKKBN15P1GQ

 

Thats the 1500m and 800m champion in trouble years later. this is not uncommon. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/athletics/athletics-doping-crisis-was-london-2012-s-1500m-olympic-final-dirtiest-race-history-a6949186.html

 

 

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It’s also surprising that ~60% of Liverpool’s squad have ‘asthma’*! For such a fit team it’s quite impressive! :ph34r:
 

 

*according to one dodgy piece of writing that’s completely unverified.

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Klopp and Liverpool are definitely cheating. The reason he wants 5 subs is to put on 5 covid vaccinated cyborgs and he's worked very closing with Bill Gates to do this. Robertson will go off at half time for Robotson. Matip will be replaced by Matchip. And so on... 

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17 minutes ago, Nalis said:

Klopp and Liverpool are definitely cheating. The reason he wants 5 subs is to put on 5 covid vaccinated cyborgs and he's worked very closing with Bill Gates to do this. Robertson will go off at half time for Robotson. Matip will be replaced by Matchip. And so on... 

 

 

Now you come to mention it, Fenway Sports Group, if you read it carelessly, looks a bit like Fenway Soros Group.

 

So it must be true.

 

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9 hours ago, Nalis said:

Klopp is probably the most whining sh it of all premier league managers and the bar is set extremely high as it is.

Guardiola takes that one for me, his rant after their loss against us really cemented that opinion.

 

Don't rate Guardiola as a manager anymore, he's just good at spending money.

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30 minutes ago, Vacamion said:

 

 

Now you come to mention it, Fenway Sports Group, if you read it carelessly, looks a bit like Fenway Soros Group.

 

So it must be true.

 

Todays joke is the a truth ten years from now. not on this one but others mentioned in this thread.

 

Take the mick all you want but if truths were not revealed people would call saying armstrong achievments were a fake a conspiracy theory. That Marion Jones was as clean as a whistle. 

 

I trust my eyes , I trust my instincts.

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8 hours ago, twister said:

I'd argue the opposite Liverpool created 18 shots tonight, often its above 20. high pressing teams create these endless chances as they get the ball back so quickly.I'd also argue its not normal in the 90th minute to be able to go full sprint at the same speed as the first I have never bought that argument,  it goes against natural tiring of players late in games even if fit.Again without proof, we must assume legally its just  groundbreaking sports science rather than anything else.But I know how uneasy I feel about it right now, it doesn't feel right.

 

Some interesting info below on athletes caught years by testers as you said after the event. 2012 was a doped up olympics its as clear as day now.Just as Armstrong and Jones and co were caught years after the event as I predicted they would be.

 

https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1100011/makhloufi-subject-to-doping-probe-france

 

this is a reminder 8 years after the olympics how one athlete after another is being caught years later.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-doping-russia-savinova/savinova-stripped-of-london-games-800m-gold-for-doping-idUKKBN15P1GQ

 

Thats the 1500m and 800m champion in trouble years later. this is not uncommon. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/athletics/athletics-doping-crisis-was-london-2012-s-1500m-olympic-final-dirtiest-race-history-a6949186.html

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Leeds Fox said:


On the flip side, maybe Liverpool’s fitness/conditioning coaches, along with physios and doctors are just the best in the business. Or maybe they sign players who have the potential to be ultra-efficient at procession oxygen

 

‘IF’ there was any doubt of PEDs. Let’s also remember that new ways of blood-doping can’t be tested until they’ve been proven and the tests are ratified by the governing bodies. The testers are always well behind the curve on this. This in turn means that’s even though it may be immoral. Until the method is found, deemed illegal and testable... it’s actually not against the rules. 
 

 

I'd say it would likely be both these things. Sports science can surely only take you so far though. Pearson, Allardyce and others were using it 10/15 years ago and even though I'm sure theres been big advances in that time the furious pace of modern elite level football is incredible. I remember the Arsenal Liverpool 4 4 game from over a decade ago and remember thinking how quick it was compared to the lower level city games I'd been watching. Now thered be no comparison. 

And I dont think it would just be Liverpool doping if it was the case. It would have to be sport wide at the top level. Theres been plenty of doping discovered in sports like athletics, cycling and mma where fitness is key and with the huge amounts of money involved in football I dont see why it would choose to remain 'pure'.

 

I know this might make me sound a bit like Eddie Bravo or that nut job who posts on Bentleys Roof and I apologise. I have no evidence and I might be wrong. Interesting topic though.

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46 minutes ago, Gubbins said:

I'd say it would likely be both these things. Sports science can surely only take you so far though. Pearson, Allardyce and others were using it 10/15 years ago and even though I'm sure theres been big advances in that time the furious pace of modern elite level football is incredible. I remember the Arsenal Liverpool 4 4 game from over a decade ago and remember thinking how quick it was compared to the lower level city games I'd been watching. Now thered be no comparison. 

And I dont think it would just be Liverpool doping if it was the case. It would have to be sport wide at the top level. Theres been plenty of doping discovered in sports like athletics, cycling and mma where fitness is key and with the huge amounts of money involved in football I dont see why it would choose to remain 'pure'.

 

I know this might make me sound a bit like Eddie Bravo or that nut job who posts on Bentleys Roof and I apologise. I have no evidence and I might be wrong. Interesting topic though.

I think your closer to the truth than you'd imagine

 

I trust me instincts again having played and watched this sport for 30 years, I am seeing things fitness wise that don't seem right. players are pressing like robots late into games.

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3 hours ago, Gubbins said:

I'd say it would likely be both these things. Sports science can surely only take you so far though. Pearson, Allardyce and others were using it 10/15 years ago and even though I'm sure theres been big advances in that time the furious pace of modern elite level football is incredible. I remember the Arsenal Liverpool 4 4 game from over a decade ago and remember thinking how quick it was compared to the lower level city games I'd been watching. Now thered be no comparison. 

And I dont think it would just be Liverpool doping if it was the case. It would have to be sport wide at the top level. Theres been plenty of doping discovered in sports like athletics, cycling and mma where fitness is key and with the huge amounts of money involved in football I dont see why it would choose to remain 'pure'.

 

I know this might make me sound a bit like Eddie Bravo or that nut job who posts on Bentleys Roof and I apologise. I have no evidence and I might be wrong. Interesting topic though.

 

2 hours ago, twister said:

I think your closer to the truth than you'd imagine

 

I trust me instincts again having played and watched this sport for 30 years, I am seeing things fitness wise that don't seem right. players are pressing like robots late into games.


I agree and was merely playing devils advocate. But it does only take one team to discovery a new technique and due to this it’s likely that they’ll be successful. So if Liverpool have found something new, they’ll be successful and they’ll be scrutinised. In years, everyone will catch up until it happens again. Rinse and repeat. 
 

It could be anything and I’m just trying to give a reason that might not be as cynical as the theories banded about. 

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Judging from the way so many players go down concussion subs will be well used, no need for 5 anymore it's now covered.

 

That's not to say I disagree with concussion subs just don't like the way players over do the injuries. There seems to be at least a couple of times when players go down under a tackle scream painfully, look up see the game is carryon with out a foul being called and they then jump up miraculously cured. 

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31 minutes ago, StanSP said:

9 subs to be named on bench. 

Only 3 standard subs to be used still. 

2 additional concussion subs to be allowed

 

 

 

 

 

 

I like that. 

 

To be honest, I'd be happy with the entire squad being allowed on the bench. I've never really understood the point of limiting a match day squad size. 

 

If British football wants to see more young kids given decent minutes then expanding the size of the subs bench is a good start. 

 

Would also agree at keeping it at three that can be brought on, though. 

 

Only thing I'd like to see implemented in addition is an extra member of the match day officials team, a qualified doctor whose job it is to determine which players have to come off for concussions. Its not appropriate to leave that responsibility to individual club employees with a vested interest. 

 

This would help make sure players that should come off do, even when the teams want to leave them on and players that DO come off aren't essentially faking it so Jurgen Klopp can bring on an extra fresh pair of legs. 

Edited by Finnegan
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If you make a concussion sub, your opponent can make a sub too? So if you want to make an additional sub, all you've got to do is concuss one of your opponents lol

 

Genuine concussion subs are obviously the right thing to do, I'd like to think football clubs and players wouldn't abuse the rule but the levels of desperation will never surprise me.

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If you think Liverpool are doping but we weren't, you're an idiot. 

 

Every club in the country these days has a sports science team pumping them full of every single chemical they can legally get away with giving them.

 

Everyone in the league is juicing legally. 

 

The difference is just how good your sports science team is at getting the balance right and what money you have for the latest and best supplements. 

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How many players suffer from concussion a season? I genuinely can’t remember any last season in the premier league. 
 

Also I like @ealingfox idea of being ruled out of the following game. You can’t come off with suspected concussion on a Saturday and be available for selection on a Tuesday. I have a feeling we’re going to start seeing a hell of a lot more “head” injuries from now on.

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