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urban.spaceman

Premier League 2020/21 Thread

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I still think there should be a quarentine period on posts it they are reported enough. So let's say someone posts a racist comment, within 10 minutes 10 people report it. The post is then quarentined. Twitter moderator's will then check the post, with the posts of users with high amounts of followers or with a good track record (no previous posts breaking rules) being placed at the top of the priority to check, so that you don't get posts taken down due to false reporting against people with influence.

 

You could also have a reputation system for people reporting, so if they continuosly report posts that don't break any rules, they will themselves get a temporary or perm ban. I really think this is a great way for the community to self police, but with the moderators there to stop people just reporting things they don't agree with. They could even take on volunteers as mods if they have good rep.

 

Maybe this is the way it all operates already and it's just the sheer amount of shite that these people have to moderate that is the issue. I don't think we should force people into identifying themselves to sign up as this could cause a whole host of privacy issues.

 

Finally, surely a blanket auto detection system could work? So commonly used racial slurs, racist intended emojis and other 'key words' are automatically quarentined, and the commenter can appeal if they believe comment or post had not broken rules, which again, would then be reviewed. At least it would stop the person being racially abused from ever seeing the comment 

Edited by LCFCCHRIS
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Just now, sheffield_fox said:

Social media have got to make people verify their accounts. It's as simple as that. 

Will never happen, they'd lose millions in revenue from people that refuse and even more trying to back verify billions of already created and active accounts. 

Also, unless it was government mandated for any website to do this (you'd even have to do it here on foxestalk) people would just jump ship to a site they don't have to do it on.

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Does this Klopp situation remind you of the second season of ranieri, both suffered horrible set backs in their personal life. Ranieri of course was not around the training ground as much as he was in previous hence why there was a lot of confusion when it came to the match day tactics. Off the field problems clearly affect Raneri the same at present is happening to klopp.

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4 minutes ago, LCFCCHRIS said:

Will never happen, they'd lose millions in revenue from people that refuse and even more trying to back verify billions of already created and active accounts. 

Also, unless it was government mandated for any website to do this (you'd even have to do it here on foxestalk) people would just jump ship to a site they don't have to do it on.

Very good points you raise. It's going to have to happen eventually. I don't think saying 'the social media sites code of practice has been unethical for so long, it will be expensive for them to change' is a reasonable argument. 

 

It only takes one country to impose these rules to get the ball rolling and the companies will fall in line soon enough. 

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The problem in the footballing world players arent exactly allowed to sort out personal problems. In the klopp situation, in the normal work place youd be given compassionate leave in order to mourn his loss and allow to get his head straight. Managers and players just have to carry on. Sometimes i do question clubs respect for their players mental welfare.

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Just now, Leicesterpool said:

The problem in the footballing world players arent exactly allowed to sort out personal problems. In the klopp situation, in the normal work place youd be given compassionate leave in order to mourn his loss and allow to get his head straight. Managers and players just have to carry on. Sometimes i do question clubs respect for their players mental welfare.

Depends what the player or manager wants to do? 

 

Aubameyang just had a few weeks off for personal reasons. Managers go off for health reasons every now and then. 

 

For all we know, Klopp might have wanted to carry on and win in her honour as it might have been what she wanted him to do. Of course not being able to go the funeral is terrible and no one would want to miss that but he might have chosen to stay on instead of taking leave. 

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On 25/01/2021 at 22:30, lcfc_forever said:

Sky Sports have published their expected goals table:

 

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/12198261/liverpool-top-xg-premier-league-table-ahead-of-man-city-chelsea-and-leicester

 

Talking of Chelsea, their overall play has been better than most and they should be higher - their problem is upfront with Werner misfiring. 
 

Like I said before, Everton, Southampton and Man Utd have been very lucky so far, their strikers have been clinical compared to other sides. Especially hope it catches up with Man Utd and Everton, their performances don’t merit their league positions. 
 

Two other standouts are Wolves and Brighton. Wolves have been even worse than their position suggests, while Brighton should be far higher but they’re flawed in two crucial positions - striker and goalkeeper. 
 

Liverpool have almost been as good as last season but they haven’t had the same luck. 

Interesting that this is largely being reflected in recent form.

 

Southampton have fallen away, while Everton's form has taken a dip. Man U have also been more inconsistent. 

 

Chelsea and Brighton are also doing a lot better. People will give Tuchel a lot of praise but the truth is Chelsea's performances suggested they should have been higher in the league. 

 

Only two teams that don't quite fit this - Wolves performances have picked up, so they've had better results while Liverpool are now genuinely struggling. The confidence hit from not getting results has fed through to their performances. 

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3 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Depends what the player or manager wants to do? 

 

Aubameyang just had a few weeks off for personal reasons. Managers go off for health reasons every now and then. 

 

For all we know, Klopp might have wanted to carry on and win in her honour as it might have been what she wanted him to do. Of course not being able to go the funeral is terrible and no one would want to miss that but he might have chosen to stay on instead of taking leave. 

Exactly. I remember Billy Sharp losing his son just after he was born, and wanted to play on and score I honour of him. I think he scored against Ipswich away and the whole stadium stood and applauded him. He felt he needed to carry on to get through, others might need to take time away. Leigh Griffiths took time away a couple of seasons back because of his mental health. I think it's less prominent with managers though, you don't see them taking time away all too often unless they are seriously ill, so maybe that something clubs could look at more.

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5 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Depends what the player or manager wants to do? 

 

Aubameyang just had a few weeks off for personal reasons. Managers go off for health reasons every now and then. 

 

For all we know, Klopp might have wanted to carry on and win in her honour as it might have been what she wanted him to do. Of course not being able to go the funeral is terrible and no one would want to miss that but he might have chosen to stay on instead of taking leave. 

I think problem yes if you feel up to carrying on and sort of if you win pay it in tribute to your mother. But if things dont work out that way it can really affect you. In any job people suffer a loss and make mistakes, the problem is in the footballing world so people will say hes losing the plot... and like ranieri situation Claudio sadly lost his job of it. Klopp is still class manager I think liverpool would stupid at moment to think he should move on considering how he the took club. 

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2 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

...you don't see them taking time away all too often unless they are seriously ill, so maybe that something clubs could look at more.

Well that's not exactly the norm society wide - rightly or wrongly. 

 

Footballers, as far as I can tell, don't get much more if a bum deal than any other demographic. 

 

If my mother died I would be entitled to a short sabbatical but nothing humongous. As is the case with footballers isn't it? There's examples of compassionate leave being given all the time. Births of children and so forth. 

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14 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

Well that's not exactly the norm society wide - rightly or wrongly. 

 

Footballers, as far as I can tell, don't get much more if a bum deal than any other demographic. 

 

If my mother died I would be entitled to a short sabbatical but nothing humongous. As is the case with footballers isn't it? There's examples of compassionate leave being given all the time. Births of children and so forth. 

Different world though isn't it. Klopp is in the limelight everyday, and after a big loss that can be difficult. Look at Simon Thomas, the Sky presenter, he actually never went back after his wife died, but initially Sky gave him all the time he needed, because presenting a TV show on front of millions to sitting behind a desk in an office for example with all your colleagues supporting you are very different. Ian Stirling does a joke about being a kids TV presenter and having to go in the day a 4 year relationship ended and had to be happy in front of camera. Me or you wouldn't  have to do that at work. We'll never know the daily pressure of being famous and in thr public eye, so we certainly can never know how difficult it is when you have personal trauma.

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Of course it depends on how people respond to grief as such. Some people can deal with, some can't or some think they can deal with it but really they just can handle it. Football managers seem like pressured to set example, like they've got to show the carry on attitude. 

 

If results don't go there way and there under alot of pressure, they cant just time some time out to go on holiday with the family and sort their head, come back all fresh with positive mind. It doesn't work they just carry on until hopefully things change or they can sack.

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1 minute ago, Leicesterpool said:

Of course it depends on how people respond to grief as such. Some people can deal with, some can't or some think they can deal with it but really they just can handle it. Football managers seem like pressured to set example, like they've got to show the carry on attitude. 

 

If results don't go there way and there under alot of pressure, they cant just time some time out to go on holiday with the family and sort their head, come back all fresh with positive mind. It doesn't work they just carry on until hopefully things change or they can sack.

If Klopps head isn't in the game at the minute is benefits everyone if he takes a week or two off. Carrying on is like an obviously injured player making themselves available for selection, when actually it doesn't benefit them or the team. Maybe just a week away to collect himself and feel reading to move forward will bring him back to normal. If he had a heart attack his assistant would step in, so why kit of you have a personal trauma.

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The flip side of the verification of accounts -

 

I've got an acquaintance who is currently in Myanmar and a relative in Hong Kong. Anonymity can be a force for bad but also very, very good. While I see what people are saying about requiring it, it can be massively open to abuse by certain powers. It's a really difficult situation to get right and, sadly, it has to come down to the platforms themselves actively cracking down on people - but it also has to come through education. 

All these people making racist posts are idiots who need a good slap but also a good bit of learning. 

There's no easy fix but, for me, the most worthwhile ones are also probably the longest and hardest to implement.

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1 minute ago, fox_up_north said:

The flip side of the verification of accounts -

 

I've got an acquaintance who is currently in Myanmar and a relative in Hong Kong. Anonymity can be a force for bad but also very, very good. While I see what people are saying about requiring it, it can be massively open to abuse by certain powers. It's a really difficult situation to get right and, sadly, it has to come down to the platforms themselves actively cracking down on people - but it also has to come through education. 

All these people making racist posts are idiots who need a good slap but also a good bit of learning. 

There's no easy fix but, for me, the most worthwhile ones are also probably the longest and hardest to implement.

Yes, absolutely. Look at Whatsapp now, they've changed their rules about it and goodness knows what they can do with our messages now.

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1 hour ago, davieG said:

So illegal streamers can be tracked down but not these scum bags. 

 

As said above Follow the money.

It isn't a case of tracking them down.  You can't legislate and police your way out of this problem.  If the police had to track down every hate comment posted online then nothing else would get done!

 

Education is the only way.  It's a long term approach but it has to be that way.

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4 minutes ago, nnfox said:

It isn't a case of tracking them down.  You can't legislate and police your way out of this problem.  If the police had to track down every hate comment posted online then nothing else would get done!

 

Education is the only way.  It's a long term approach but it has to be that way.

I doubt it's the police tracking down illegal streamers, besides they don't have to track them all, a few high profile prosecution cases should put the brakes on at least.

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19 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

If Klopps head isn't in the game at the minute is benefits everyone if he takes a week or two off. Carrying on is like an obviously injured player making themselves available for selection, when actually it doesn't benefit them or the team. Maybe just a week away to collect himself and feel reading to move forward will bring him back to normal. If he had a heart attack his assistant would step in, so why kit of you have a personal trauma.

Agreed, this season the interviews done have been unklopp. He used to be so cool and calm in his interviews. Used to just laugh off silly questions. If it wasnt for the announcement of his mother's death, people would say hes just a manager losing the plot and making excuses. Really hes a manager that just concentrate. As you say a time out would benefit him. I dont think anyone in football would criticise him for it. Hed been given more credit.

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8 minutes ago, davieG said:

I doubt it's the police tracking down illegal streamers, besides they don't have to track them all, a few high profile prosecution cases should put the brakes on at least.

Somebody has to enforce the tracking down of offenders though.  Maybe trading standards or something for streamers, but to prosecute people for hate crime, the police would surely have to be involved.

 

There's some merit to prosecuting high profile cases and I understand the point, but perhaps the media can play a bigger part by making the run of the mill, everyday hate crime cases of a higher profile, rather than just having high profile victims?  The danger is that people (being stupid) will think it's ok if the victim isn't famous.

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1 hour ago, sheffield_fox said:

Social media have got to make people verify their accounts. It's as simple as that. 

I’ve seen so much racist crap from verified accounts, this isn’t the answer. 
 

A blue tick to a SJW means they think they can say what they want, even when what they’re saying is as racist and ignorant as the faceless accounts that post nothing but racist rubbish.  
 

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3 minutes ago, nnfox said:

Somebody has to enforce the tracking down of offenders though.  Maybe trading standards or something for streamers, but to prosecute people for hate crime, the police would surely have to be involved.

 

There's some merit to prosecuting high profile cases and I understand the point, but perhaps the media can play a bigger part by making the run of the mill, everyday hate crime cases of a higher profile, rather than just having high profile victims?  The danger is that people (being stupid) will think it's ok if the victim isn't famous.

I would think that the likes of Facebook etc have enough resources, money and know how to track them down and hand the evidence over to the police. 

Some people are just looking for notoriety, ASBOS became a badge of honour. They need to be severely punished rather than just made 'celebrities' of them and martyrs to those who agree with them.

 

But I guess there all sorts of options none of which are perfect but anything's better than the apathetic response so far from the social media owners.

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The onus has to be on the companies and yes, they should be responsible for getting law enforcement involved if that line has been crossed. 

 

If Facebook, etc are seen not to be complying with this then they get fined. Surely no one believes that they don't have the resources to deal with this issue if they are compelled to? They understand social manipulation to a degree we can barely imagine. 

 

There will always be the issue of forcing these idiots underground but that's a much better place for them imo than the situation we have at the moment.

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