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GingerrrFox

An unpopular opinion...?

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I think it’s clear that people seem to constantly want to phase him out!

He is the best striker we will ever see in our lifetimes, and I highly doubt we will get anyone better.

For me it’s clear and I agree that he has lost a yard of pace and hasn’t got the stamina to be able to really get at players anymore like 2015-2018, when he truly was absolutely dynamite.

 

This isn’t new though, he’s looked it even when he was smashing in 17 in 18 this season, he’s clearly not the same as 15/16 season.

Hes actually a better all round striker now , through experience, development and tactical awareness with different managers and the experience of racking up 200+ prem games but physically he has declined for sure.


His road to where he’s got is incredible really, and it’s clear for me that if he had made it to the top earlier and combined his raw fitness and speed combined with his experience and know how of now then he’d of been a world great. If he was 20-25 over the last few years and coming up to his prime now, he’d be a target for all the top clubs and probably of been snapped up years ago.

Hes a legend and still has the quality despite not at his peak clearly now(he’s 33 what do we expect)..however I still believe he’s the only one in the club who still can genuinely finish a chance!!

We look so poor near goal, I’m never convinced by anyone bar Vards. Barnes, Gray, Nacho and Perez all look like they need a million chances to score and he really is a top striker who will be super hard to replace.

I do agree, we suffer a bit from trying to find him to much when he’s Icolated and he doesn’t have the sheer dynamism to take people on himself anymore.
They will say people will work him /us out, but in truth they couldn’t handle him at his peak because he was just too good, but now he’s become a bit more human, they can deal with him a bit easier.


So whilst I do agree, we need to utilise him a bit better next year, he still should be a starter , however we need to get him to drop deeper, link up play and get involved more than just hang on the shoulder. I believe he can do this and Rodgers needs to talk to him to change it because he doesn’t do it enough, through lack of doing it rather than because he can’t.

The game away at Arsenal recently, he was fantastic, he dropped back a bit more and got stuck in more and got in dangerous areas still but also more involved. Games like today, Brighton, Everton away are the games he needs to drop deeper and get involved.

 

People need to stop writing off though, it’s getting tiring. We were well in the game today and we through it away , again because of stupid passing in deep areas when being pressed on! Causing our own problems!

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3 hours ago, GingerrrFox said:

This is probably going to be a divisive opinion and maybe not many people will agree with me. However I think it’s the way forward for Leicester City. 
 

If you read Sir Alex Ferguson’s autobiography when he discusses moving away from Ruud Van Nistelrooy and evolving his Manchester United team, he spoke about how he felt football had moved away from having a 20+ goal a season striker who has to be fed chances in the box and cannot create for others.
 

If you look at the trios of Tevez/Rooney/Ronaldo, Firmino/Mane/Salah or Bergkamp/Henry/Pires which have been successful, it’s because they are a whole unit, they are interchangeable and they create for each other as well as being able to put the ball in the back of the net. 
 

Look at Rashford/Martial/Greenwood today as an example of a trio that are being primed for the future, they are going to be a unit that if they stay together will make United title winners again in the not too distant future.

 

Earlier in the season there was an article in the Athletic that said our expected goals was only 14.27 but our actual goals tally was 27 at the time. It was predicted that it would be unsustainable and we would see a drop off. This has proved to be the case with our 15th position in the form table for the last 12 rounds of matches. Our team right now is built around providing chances for Jamie Vardy and this puts pressure on both the team to feed Vardy and for Vardy to regularly convert those chances at high percentages. It is not a sustainable game plan because it relies on one man being at the top of their game consistently and is too one dimensional and predictable for the opposition. 
 

So the potential unpopular opinion from me is that I think it is time to start the process of moving on from Jamie Vardy and bring in a striker who is not just a goal scorer. We will never be able to sign a star such as Mbappe or Haaland, however buying a more complete striker who can contribute to chances being made as well as putting them away is what we need to progress as a football team in my opinion. It’s time to buy a striker who will genuinely push Vardy to be the starter in that position and is in a different mould of striker to Vardy. 

 

No doubt Vardy still has a role in the squad, especially against teams where they will look to make things difficult for us and we can sacrifice a midfielder for an extra striker. Vardy is a legend for Leicester fans and rightly so, this is not meant to take anything away from how good he has been for us or his achievements for the club and I am happy for him that he has won individual recognition with the golden boot award. However for me it is becoming apparent his acceleration is dropping off - a few seasons ago he would have blitzed past Lindelof on the through ball that we saw today in the first half. He also doesn’t seem to be able to repeat high intensity sprints like he used to, which was another key asset to his game as the opposition became tired. For me, it’s time to genuinely bring in a successor to Jamie Vardy’s crown who can compete for his position in the team and either replace him now or in the not too distant future. 

 At the age he’s at it is time to bring in a younger striker who can get his goals.

 

 Yes he’s got the golden boot, but we are too reliant on him, and he is now prone to injuries and periods of poor form, as we have seen, I do believe his poor form had something to do with injuries, I did hear rumours he played a lot of the season with pain relief injections.

 

 As he ages he is going to be out for periods, and we have no real goal scorer to cover the loss of his goals, Perez definitely not, nacho maybe, slimani maybe but out of favour.

 

 Rodgers style is to bring a young talent on board, and now is a great time, as I think vardy has one more full season in him, in my opinion, let’s give the striker time to settle and as vardy ages, push him out the team.

 

 To be a successful team all players in all positions need to be being pushed for their places, and we have very little quality in reserve, I would like everyone desperately trying to keep their place, and not nailed on to start every week like now, starting in goal, kasper has deserved to be dropped so many times, but ward isn’t up to it by the looks of it.

 

 Morgan, albrighton, Gray, Mendy if  he signed a new deal, James, gezzell,  and many more squad players and the poor quality squad players like these are taking up wages, without the quality to improve us, get them off the wage bill, and bring in players that can compete for the shirt.

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3 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

Barnes can't hit a barn door with a banjo.

 

Gray can't play perform from the start and has the odd good 20 mins.

 

Nacho goes from skinning a defender, to tripping over he's own feet.

 

Perez has 1 good game in 5.

 

But hey the 23 golden boot winner is the problem.........

That isn’t what the OP was saying was it? 😫

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OP is right.  We do need to evolve into a new way of playing that gets us goals from elsewhere.  It's a necessary transition.  I get the love in for Vardy and he is still our best threat in front of goal, but people seem so resistant to phase him out it's crazy.  Maybe he has another two seasons left in him?  We have the added challenge of Europe next season so more games, not less.  Do people want to wait until his form drops off a cliff and he announces his retirement before we get a replacement?

 

I like the idea of a interchangeable front 3. Barnes/Iheanacho/Perez could be a basis for it, but in reality we'd need at least one quality signing to bolster that, and next season at least, there is no reason why Vardy can't be part of that.

 

We do have a big reliance on Vardy and teams have got good at limiting his chances by cutting off his supply and we are struggling to create many chances at all.  The Man Utd game was a must win game, but how many chances did we get?  How many times were we able to play Vardy in?

 

The time has come to change it up a bit.  Get a front three that can score 40-50 goals per season between them, a midfield who can contribute 15 and get better at set pieces as a team and we will be looking good.

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7 hours ago, ALC Fox said:

We do need a plan B, that's for sure. Brendan's right, we need more creativity in the final third.

 

It would also help if we could actually hit the target. Not only that but the opportunities to exploit Man Utd's weaknesses were there.

 

De Gea was in horrendous form but we never tested him. The shots didn't need to fly into the top corner, they just needed to be on target. He has mistakes in him but never put him under pressure.

 

Maguire too. Vardy may look like his acceleration has dropped somewhat but he's still Usain Bolt compared to Harry Maguire, yet he was never targeted.

 

I know it's easier said than done but they were the two glaring weaknesses in Man Utd's team and we didn't lay a glove on them.

 

(Just to clarify. It's not Vardy's time yet  but we do need genuine alternatives to break teams down.)

I thought this too. Maguire got a yellow very early on and we should have really got in his face. We just didn't do that 

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Vardy isn't the problem- the problem is out wide.

 

We were relying on a kid in his first full top flight season and a lightweight support striker to provide the goals and assists needed to propel us into the top 4- that's ultimately been our downfall.

 

We have had 4 transfer windows to try and replace Mahrez and we simply haven't bothered.

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2 minutes ago, Ted Maul said:

Vardy isn't the problem- the problem is out wide.

 

We were relying on a kid in his first full top flight season and a lightweight support striker to provide the goals and assists needed to propel us into the top 4- that's ultimately been our downfall.

 

We have had 4 transfer windows to try and replace Mahrez and we simply haven't bothered.

Not sure about us not being bothered. Mahrez was always going to be near enough impossible to replace. 

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14 minutes ago, hejammy said:

Not sure about us not being bothered. Mahrez was always going to be near enough impossible to replace. 

I know we were always going to struggle to replace his quality, but when was the last time we signed a winger to go straight into the first team? It was probably Albrighton lol

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He's obviously not the same quality, but the one guy out there who plays in the same style as Mahrez is Shaqiri.  He doesn't have athleticism or size but he has an innate ability to beat defenders and create goals, for himself and others, basically out of thin air.

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I would agree that we need genuine competion for Vardy and the europa league probably gives a bit more opportunity to rotate him. I've been critical at times this season because the lack of touches and variety to his play but a lot of this is down to the players behind him. We have creative players wide and central who can control the ball then we don't need Vardy to get involved in general play. You create enough for Vardy and he will score a fair share, he can't be expected to be ruthless finisher all the time, all strikers miss their fair share.

 

 

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This isn’t an unpopular opinion it’s an ill thought out one. 
 

The problem isn’t our 23 goal Premier league top scorer but rather the lack of goals and support from behind him and the lack of depth in the squad. That lack of depth isn’t due to poor recruiting but a lack of funds. To keep the likes of Evans, Kasper, N’didi, Ricardo, Chilwell, Tielemans, Maddison and Vardy we have to use our budget on their wages. The consequences of that is we need to keep cheaper support players. Overhauling the squad isn’t possible unless we regularly sell one top player. Vardy’s sale value is far lower than his goal and points value to us. 

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1 hour ago, fleckneymike said:

This isn’t an unpopular opinion it’s an ill thought out one. 
 

The problem isn’t our 23 goal Premier league top scorer but rather the lack of goals and support from behind him and the lack of depth in the squad. That lack of depth isn’t due to poor recruiting but a lack of funds. To keep the likes of Evans, Kasper, N’didi, Ricardo, Chilwell, Tielemans, Maddison and Vardy we have to use our budget on their wages. The consequences of that is we need to keep cheaper support players. Overhauling the squad isn’t possible unless we regularly sell one top player. Vardy’s sale value is far lower than his goal and points value to us. 

So we have a lack of funds because we have to pay the wages of 7 of our current starting 11? The problem is the team is currently too one dimensional, we rely on Vardy to score goals and that is the only way we know how to play. We need a different kind of striker in the squad who can offer us a genuine alternative to the way we play with Vardy in the team. A False 9 for example in the style of Firmino or a player with greater aerial threat and link up ability such as Giroud. Without another option up front, who is at the same level to keep Vardy on his toes our teams slide will continue in my opinion. 

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6 hours ago, Ceirboy said:

That isn’t what the OP was saying was it? 😫

It is to an extent though.

 

Are we too reliant on Vardy because of our style or is it that our other attacking players just don't contribute as much as they should like Mahrez used to?

 

Barnes and Perez absolutely should have scored more and Maddison and Tielemans scored well up until Christmas but haven't scored at all since. And being our 2 main set piece takers and set pieces have taken a nose dive in quality 2nd half of the season indicates our other attacking players are getting the chances. They're just not converting them.

 

We wouldn't even be having this conversation if our other attacking players like Barnes, Perez, Maddison, Tielemans etc. had contributed the goals they should have done.

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11 hours ago, GingerrrFox said:

Yeah and all the pundits were making a huge deal out of it because it is completely un-Vardy like. Funnily enough it’s also the first time since the restart in March that we put in a quality performance and came away with a much needed result, you’ve just agreed with my point of view in this post.
 

Can he replicate that performance and play in that style regularly moving forwards? If so then that is the Vardy we need next season. 

I haven't, I think it is good if we can get goals from elsewhere. I think it's the lack of options in and around him that is the problem though, not Vardy himself. That's why I'd persist with Barnes to an extent, he does get himself in the right areas, but we have seen far too many games where Vardy cuts an isolated figure.

 

The stats from this season don't point to Vardy being the issue either: Barnes 8, Tielemans 6, Vardy 5. Vardy isn't the issue here.

 

However, I do agree that we need to start thinking about who could fill those very big shoes, but whatever we do, he'll be a huge huge loss when he's done.

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12 hours ago, GingerrrFox said:

This is probably going to be a divisive opinion and maybe not many people will agree with me. However I think it’s the way forward for Leicester City. 
 

If you read Sir Alex Ferguson’s autobiography when he discusses moving away from Ruud Van Nistelrooy and evolving his Manchester United team, he spoke about how he felt football had moved away from having a 20+ goal a season striker who has to be fed chances in the box and cannot create for others.
 

If you look at the trios of Tevez/Rooney/Ronaldo, Firmino/Mane/Salah or Bergkamp/Henry/Pires which have been successful, it’s because they are a whole unit, they are interchangeable and they create for each other as well as being able to put the ball in the back of the net. 
 

Look at Rashford/Martial/Greenwood today as an example of a trio that are being primed for the future, they are going to be a unit that if they stay together will make United title winners again in the not too distant future.

 

Earlier in the season there was an article in the Athletic that said our expected goals was only 14.27 but our actual goals tally was 27 at the time. It was predicted that it would be unsustainable and we would see a drop off. This has proved to be the case with our 15th position in the form table for the last 12 rounds of matches. Our team right now is built around providing chances for Jamie Vardy and this puts pressure on both the team to feed Vardy and for Vardy to regularly convert those chances at high percentages. It is not a sustainable game plan because it relies on one man being at the top of their game consistently and is too one dimensional and predictable for the opposition. 
 

So the potential unpopular opinion from me is that I think it is time to start the process of moving on from Jamie Vardy and bring in a striker who is not just a goal scorer. We will never be able to sign a star such as Mbappe or Haaland, however buying a more complete striker who can contribute to chances being made as well as putting them away is what we need to progress as a football team in my opinion. It’s time to buy a striker who will genuinely push Vardy to be the starter in that position and is in a different mould of striker to Vardy. 

 

No doubt Vardy still has a role in the squad, especially against teams where they will look to make things difficult for us and we can sacrifice a midfielder for an extra striker. Vardy is a legend for Leicester fans and rightly so, this is not meant to take anything away from how good he has been for us or his achievements for the club and I am happy for him that he has won individual recognition with the golden boot award. However for me it is becoming apparent his acceleration is dropping off - a few seasons ago he would have blitzed past Lindelof on the through ball that we saw today in the first half. He also doesn’t seem to be able to repeat high intensity sprints like he used to, which was another key asset to his game as the opposition became tired. For me, it’s time to genuinely bring in a successor to Jamie Vardy’s crown who can compete for his position in the team and either replace him now or in the not too distant future. 

I completely understand your point and theory. However I would say we are not far off from having a superb attacking side ourselves. 

 

The top sides wider players can all rotate which makes them so hard to mark but overall Firmino / Aguerro / Kane for example will stay centrally like Vardy does for us. As a club we don't have the resources to go and spend 70+ million each player on an elite front 3, or even attract those players to us. We have to develop them.

 

Currently we might not have a front 3, but we can recreate this with our midfielders adding goals to their game. Tielemans and Maddison should be getting 5-10 per season. Barnes I believe has the potential for 12+ per season. He gets into brilliant positions just at this moment his finishing is not to a standard we would like. But every match he has chances to shoot or score. We desperately need a RW who is capable and I don't think we are far away from your point and having a very good front 3. If this new RW can play in the 3 forward positions and I think we will have a very good attacking side next year (Benrahma for example).

 

Vardy is more than just a goal scorer, he will assist and is unselfish as well. We are very lucky to have him in our team and we are far better off for this.

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2 hours ago, GingerrrFox said:

So we have a lack of funds because we have to pay the wages of 7 of our current starting 11? The problem is the team is currently too one dimensional, we rely on Vardy to score goals and that is the only way we know how to play. We need a different kind of striker in the squad who can offer us a genuine alternative to the way we play with Vardy in the team. A False 9 for example in the style of Firmino or a player with greater aerial threat and link up ability such as Giroud. Without another option up front, who is at the same level to keep Vardy on his toes our teams slide will continue in my opinion. 

Yes. We have a lack of funds because we have to spend our money on our top players wages. Our wage to turn over ratio is 84%, or £150m. That’s the third worst in the league. UEFA recommend no higher than 70%. Every contract extension further increases the strain and with King the only certain departure we don’t have much money to play with. 
 

The two players you’ve mentioned both earn close to or more than Vardy. Firmino is on £180k. So, again, I fail to see how the argument that we should dispense with the league’s top scorer and change our style of play actually makes sense. 

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5 minutes ago, fleckneymike said:

Yes. We have a lack of funds because we have to spend our money on our top players wages. Our wage to turn over ratio is 84%, or £150m. That’s the third worst in the league. UEFA recommend no higher than 70%. Every contract extension further increases the strain and with King the only certain departure we don’t have much money to play with. 
 

The two players you’ve mentioned both earn close to or more than Vardy. Firmino is on £180k. So, again, I fail to see how the argument that we should dispense with the league’s top scorer and change our style of play actually makes sense. 

I know people like to pretend Jamie Vardy is still in his 20s and has years ahead of him but in reality he doesn’t. Failing to prepare for his departure makes no sense, realistically he’s got 2 years max left at the top level. We need to get in a player who is not expected to hit the ground running because we waited too long to think about Vardy’s long term replacement. I’m not saying bin Jamie Vardy off now but this summer is the right time to think of the future. We need a different way of scoring goals in this team, a more collective approach rather than expecting our number 9 to score consistently over 40-50 games with Europe next season. 

 

I was making reference to Firmino and Giroud’s playing styles, not the actual players themselves. We need a second option up front who is a different mould of striker to Vardy and finding a like for like replacement for Vardy is near on impossible. 

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13 hours ago, GingerrrFox said:

This is probably going to be a divisive opinion and maybe not many people will agree with me. However I think it’s the way forward for Leicester City. 
 

If you read Sir Alex Ferguson’s autobiography when he discusses moving away from Ruud Van Nistelrooy and evolving his Manchester United team, he spoke about how he felt football had moved away from having a 20+ goal a season striker who has to be fed chances in the box and cannot create for others.
 

If you look at the trios of Tevez/Rooney/Ronaldo, Firmino/Mane/Salah or Bergkamp/Henry/Pires which have been successful, it’s because they are a whole unit, they are interchangeable and they create for each other as well as being able to put the ball in the back of the net. 
 

Look at Rashford/Martial/Greenwood today as an example of a trio that are being primed for the future, they are going to be a unit that if they stay together will make United title winners again in the not too distant future.

 

Earlier in the season there was an article in the Athletic that said our expected goals was only 14.27 but our actual goals tally was 27 at the time. It was predicted that it would be unsustainable and we would see a drop off. This has proved to be the case with our 15th position in the form table for the last 12 rounds of matches. Our team right now is built around providing chances for Jamie Vardy and this puts pressure on both the team to feed Vardy and for Vardy to regularly convert those chances at high percentages. It is not a sustainable game plan because it relies on one man being at the top of their game consistently and is too one dimensional and predictable for the opposition. 
 

So the potential unpopular opinion from me is that I think it is time to start the process of moving on from Jamie Vardy and bring in a striker who is not just a goal scorer. We will never be able to sign a star such as Mbappe or Haaland, however buying a more complete striker who can contribute to chances being made as well as putting them away is what we need to progress as a football team in my opinion. It’s time to buy a striker who will genuinely push Vardy to be the starter in that position and is in a different mould of striker to Vardy. 

 

No doubt Vardy still has a role in the squad, especially against teams where they will look to make things difficult for us and we can sacrifice a midfielder for an extra striker. Vardy is a legend for Leicester fans and rightly so, this is not meant to take anything away from how good he has been for us or his achievements for the club and I am happy for him that he has won individual recognition with the golden boot award. However for me it is becoming apparent his acceleration is dropping off - a few seasons ago he would have blitzed past Lindelof on the through ball that we saw today in the first half. He also doesn’t seem to be able to repeat high intensity sprints like he used to, which was another key asset to his game as the opposition became tired. For me, it’s time to genuinely bring in a successor to Jamie Vardy’s crown who can compete for his position in the team and either replace him now or in the not too distant future. 

I think the real problem is that Perez and Barnes are some of the most wasteful finishers I've ever seen at Leicester. I believe Barnes may improve on that and I'd like to see him take on a more dynamic forward role than just being a traditional inverted winger but he needs to improve his finishing to help compliment Vardy who is as good as anything in this division.

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13 hours ago, Guest said:

Nobody has said he's the problem, have they?

Bloke a few posts up from you has received a lot of rep for saying "We need to start phasing Vardy out. We're too Vardy centric, and I think it's detrimental to the team overall."

 

 

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1 minute ago, AKCJ said:

Bloke a few posts up from you has received a lot of rep for saying "We need to start phasing Vardy out. We're too Vardy centric, and I think it's detrimental to the team overall."

 

 

At the risk of repeating myself, I think the implication there is that the problem is not Vardy but our total reliance on him. 

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6 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

Bloke a few posts up from you has received a lot of rep for saying "We need to start phasing Vardy out. We're too Vardy centric, and I think it's detrimental to the team overall."

 

 

As I said before, Vardy himself isn't the problem. Setting up the team to purely focus on maximising goals from Vardy is the problem, because it's one dimensional and easily countered.

 

I feel like I'm repeating myself over and over here.

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Just now, Charl91 said:

As I said before, Vardy himself isn't the problem. Setting up the team to purely focus on maximising goals from Vardy is the problem, because it's one dimensional and easily countered.

 

I feel like I'm repeating myself over and over here.

If you don't want people to think that you think Vardy is detrimental to the team and that we should be phasing him out then don't say it?

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