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2020/21 Under 23's, U19's, Development ... thread

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I've posted more than enough on here on this topic. But in-line with comments above, it must be said that the management and structure in terms of how the development ages as a whole are managed and controlled from top to bottom needs fundamentally changing. Our scouting and recruitment team need to be working more intensely for the next Messi, amongst other additions for all age groups along with first team sourcing.

 

Our current set up ignores this and is only focused on playing matches in their respective development leugues as opposed to finding players that stand out and grooming them for the next best thing. Our club next to never moves players up through the age groups on merit and that is part of the problem. When these kids are 18 they can get professional contracts wherever they like, and here we are with a multitude of players over that age who will never make the cut for this club or leugue and yet they are playing game time in the development league. 

 

The development team management needs a massive overhaul and clear out to move forward in modern times and catch up to the academy's that the bigger clubs operate. The entire development teams need to become far more streamlined and efficient with far more talent bought into it.

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On 10/02/2021 at 14:59, Ric Flair said:

Saw a bit of him for the U18's last season where he played a sort of Danny Tiatto type role as a left footed player that was neither really a full back or a winger or a central midfielder, a sort of jack of all trades type. He was decent though.

Not quite such a headcase though as DT!

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1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

VDC is nothing to do with our academy ......

 

its not the academy that seems to be the problem its something that happens between U18s and the first team ...

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2 hours ago, AjcW said:

Sure I'm not the only one thinking that Daley Campbell's excellent performance last night only highlights even more the issues with management and style of play at youth level?

 

I've watched him on a number of occasions this season look distinctly average/poor for the U23's, steps up to the first team last night in a proper system playing actual football and looks right at home.


Change needs to happen soon or we could lose a really bright generation, DC is just lucky BR has spotted something in training, because I doubt he got much from watching him in games.

.....very much the way I viewed him watching him play in the U23s!!!

Seemed recently to be  a marked upgrade in his performances when playing as support upfront. I remember Ian Wright being angry with  Arsenal letting him go and berated their youth policy.

  You start to think that some players are born to excel in environments that you would normally be viewed as beyond their capabilities. Thomas due to circumstances has come in and excelled, Daley-Campbell now appear to be doing the same . I still think that Hirst is a player that would bridge this gap although he does not appear to be pulling up any trees in the lower leagues at the moment.

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2 hours ago, AjcW said:

Sure I'm not the only one thinking that Daley Campbell's excellent performance last night only highlights even more the issues with management and style of play at youth level?

 

I've watched him on a number of occasions this season look distinctly average/poor for the U23's, steps up to the first team last night in a proper system playing actual football and looks right at home.


Change needs to happen soon or we could lose a really bright generation, DC is just lucky BR has spotted something in training, because I doubt he got much from watching him in games.

Tbf he was surrounded by better players. I always hear similar sort of comments for the likes of Barnes, Chilwell, choudhury and KDH where people say they weren’t that great for the u23s or nothing special. 

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2 hours ago, UHDrive said:

I've posted more than enough on here on this topic. But in-line with comments above, it must be said that the management and structure in terms of how the development ages as a whole are managed and controlled from top to bottom needs fundamentally changing. Our scouting and recruitment team need to be working more intensely for the next Messi, amongst other additions for all age groups along with first team sourcing.

 

Our current set up ignores this and is only focused on playing matches in their respective development leugues as opposed to finding players that stand out and grooming them for the next best thing. Our club next to never moves players up through the age groups on merit and that is part of the problem. When these kids are 18 they can get professional contracts wherever they like, and here we are with a multitude of players over that age who will never make the cut for this club or leugue and yet they are playing game time in the development league. 

 

The development team management needs a massive overhaul and clear out to move forward in modern times and catch up to the academy's that the bigger clubs operate. The entire development teams need to become far more streamlined and efficient with far more talent bought into it.

What do you mean, more intensely? 

 

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If they were just more intense/intensive we'd have several next Messi s.

 

God damn their lack of intensiteeeeee (Claude wouldn't have allowed it).

 

Swap kop with family stand.

 

Have we signed Nicky Maynard yet?

 

Kermo was decent.

 

Lester iz just a rugby club without Mehhhrez!!

 

Can you vote for my niece as the face of kinder?

 

I think that's just about everything done.

 

Best Regards,

 

CraigAdams23 (must be CraigAdams30 at least by now?)

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3 hours ago, st albans fox said:

VDC is nothing to do with our academy ......

 

I didn’t say he was did I? 
 

1 hour ago, lcfc sheff said:

Tbf he was surrounded by better players. I always hear similar sort of comments for the likes of Barnes, Chilwell, choudhury and KDH where people say they weren’t that great for the u23s or nothing special. 

yeah... exactly... I thought exactly the same about Barnes, Chilwell and Choudhury. Playing Turgid football in the U23’s they didn’t look anything special but thankfully they were sent out on loans. It’s no coincidence that none of the three you mention got a look in before they’d moved out to play elsewhere first. 

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5 hours ago, AjcW said:

Sure I'm not the only one thinking that Daley Campbell's excellent performance last night only highlights even more the issues with management and style of play at youth level?

 

I've watched him on a number of occasions this season look distinctly average/poor for the U23's, steps up to the first team last night in a proper system playing actual football and looks right at home.


Change needs to happen soon or we could lose a really bright generation, DC is just lucky BR has spotted something in training, because I doubt he got much from watching him in games.

Can we perhaps wait more than one game, a game where he was protected by the other players, before coming to a conclusion that the academy players would succeed if only they were taken out of the u23s and put into the first team?

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Tbf to our academy, VDC was the fourth home grown player to play for us this season. We've not long sold Chilwell for £50 million and KDH is getting rave reviews on loan.That's not a bad strike rate

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Just now, Webbo said:

Tbf to our academy, VDC was the fourth home grown player to play for us this season. We've not long sold Chilwell for £50 million and KDH is getting rave reviews on loan.That's not a bad strike rate

Its a very good strike rate; there's just a feeling we could be doing even better.

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15 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Tbf to our academy, VDC was the fourth home grown player to play for us this season. We've not long sold Chilwell for £50 million and KDH is getting rave reviews on loan.That's not a bad strike rate

Definitely can't argue with that Webbo, but as i've said above, Chilwell and Barnes wouldn't be anywhere without their loans away from the club, and KDH is the latest success along the same process. 

 

Thomas was one who hardly saw any games in the U23's before promotion and has really learned his football in the first team which is great, but again highlights a lack of faith in our mid way point between academy and first team.

 

Don't get me wrong, some of the issues lie with the U23 system, I think it's broken and needs to be replaced with a B-Team/Reserves league again. But for me it's time to upgrade the staff now that we've upgraded the facilities.

 

I just find it absolutely baffling that Rodgers and Congerton who are famed for their success at building the Chelsea youth set up back in the day, aren't fighting for more changes behind the scenes.... who knows, perhaps they are, but it needs to happen sooner rather than later.

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2 hours ago, Webbo said:

Tbf to our academy, VDC was the fourth home grown player to play for us this season. We've not long sold Chilwell for £50 million and KDH is getting rave reviews on loan.That's not a bad strike rate

....are you attributing Home Grown to the U23s!!!

VDC not a bonafide product of the academy, his formative years were at Arsenal, approximately 2 years with us so far.

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9 hours ago, Webbo said:

Tbf to our academy, VDC was the fourth home grown player to play for us this season. We've not long sold Chilwell for £50 million and KDH is getting rave reviews on loan.That's not a bad strike rate

We also have one of them, Barnes developing into a £40/50 mill player. You can see why the senior management at the club wouldn’t be in a hurry to scrap the status quo 

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7 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

....are you attributing Home Grown to the U23s!!!

VDC not a bonafide product of the academy, his formative years were at Arsenal, approximately 2 years with us so far.

Wasn't he let go by Arsenal? If he's been here 2 years then he must have improved here. Seems a bit churlish not to give any credit to our academy. 

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1 hour ago, surrifox said:

We also have one of them, Barnes developing into a £40/50 mill player. You can see why the senior management at the club wouldn’t be in a hurry to scrap the status quo 

The status quo of none of those players getting near the first team before we let other sides develop them for us? 

 

Whilst i'd love to see every top prospect out on loan at a good side, it's not feasible, so we need to find a way of improving our middle ground (the U23 set up), whether that be by ditching the league and taking the Brentford approach (A B Team that play weekly friendlies against teams from all over the world) or whether we just get a new coaching team in more aligned with first team principles. 

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1 hour ago, Webbo said:

Wasn't he let go by Arsenal? If he's been here 2 years then he must have improved here. Seems a bit churlish not to give any credit to our academy. 

He left off his own accord but there's some debate as to whether Arsenal really wanted to keep him. Quite an interesting article on him on The Athletic. Goes in to detail about how Rodgers and Kolo Toure persuaded him to join us rather than stay at Arsenal. 

 

Even if such players don't count as being developed much in our academy, I've been wanting to see us recruit more 16 - 19 year old who are ready to kick on and have a chance of getting in our first team within a year or so. That's why it's then important to have the clear pathway and style of play from like minded coaches throughout.

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3 hours ago, Webbo said:

Wasn't he let go by Arsenal? If he's been here 2 years then he must have improved here. Seems a bit churlish not to give any credit to our academy. 

....U23s the grave yard for players!!!

 As I  have previously stated Ian Wright was doing his nut, in regards to  Arsenal letting him go.

  A few posters have said they did not see that performance coming from him as he is not someone that shines in the U23s. 

  He seems to have something about him when supporting the attack, but prone to poor application when defending. 

 

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2 hours ago, AjcW said:

The best youth coaches go on to be managers and first team coaches in their own right. We literally have one in charge of us lol 

 

Steve Cooper is a good example, from Liverpool to the England set up and now Manager at Swansea. 

 

Our Steve hasn't moved up, down or out in what? 18 years? That's the sign of a very comfortable man who knows he's onto a good thing. How does that translate onto the players ambition wise when you're coached by someone who has seemingly never seaked to better themselves? Come on now we've all worked with that one person in the office who is a bit shit but has been there 20 years and the company has no idea how to move them on lol 

 

I personally want us to have coaches at that level who are regularly interviewed for Championship management jobs, we SHOULD be having to replace them every couple of years and we should be proud of that fact. 

 

Look at the way it often works in Germany and Spain where the B-Team boss ends up being in charge of the first team eventually, wouldn't it be great if we could call upon that too? And they could then promote the talent they had been nurturing in the youth set up.

Please tell me you're not proposing that Beaglehole should be Rodgers successor...?!?  :D

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