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2020/21 Under 23's, U19's, Development ... thread

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On 10/02/2021 at 13:00, Foxy-Lady said:

This is a Classic example of  "closed loop thinking" (Matthew Syed - "Black Box Thinking")

 

In the financial world, it doesn't take a genius to turn £1m into £1m.......you judge an investors success by whether he turns £1m into £1 or preferably, whether he can turn £1 into £1m.

Barnes would probably have succeeded at any academy....that doesn't necessarily make us any better than any other academy, its just geography based on where he lived and his application and attitude (with some good coaching input from 'some' excellent coaches through the younger age groups).

 

As for Ndukwu, there were many clubs who wanted to sign him as a 15-17 year old but leicester didnt want to sell....why do you think that was?

For some reason his development has nose-dived in the past 3-4 years (U23s football??) and while its a fair criticism to blame the player for his apparent lack of application, does that just exonerate the coaches/system from all blame?  If so, you're effectively saying that where players fail its because of them but where players succeed, its because of the coaches and the academy!   

This is a player who other 'bigger' clubs were prepared to pay good money for as a young player but now is effectively worth nothing (ie turning £1m into £1...!)

 

Sounds like the perfect world to be a coach as you effectively cannot fail......if the player succeeds its because of YOU and if they fail, its because of THEM....but you as a coach remain beyond objective criticism as you have just shown by your comments.

 

if you view that as negative then fair enough.....personally, i would always try to focus on performance improvement by highlighting areas of weakness and concern and turning them into strengths rather than just accepting it for what it is. 

 

You focus on negatives only . As a football academy LCFC is doing OK .Could it do better ? yeah , we all can in life .  I bet your great on a night out . 

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https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/brendan-rodgers-rules-out-re-5000731?fbclid=IwAR3P6BZH1HRw0Ej5vyGLWdhFkedIjYXoo5J1F_UrG2AmfTVYnFumCJFuEE8

 

 

Brendan Rodgers rules out re-signing title-winner to fill James Justin void
The title-winning right-back filled a gap for the Under-23s this week as he builds his fitness amid a search for a new club, but it not going to be offered a deal

 

Simpson has spent time training with the club to allow him to keep up his fitness amid his search for a new side, but Rodgers ruled out looking at the 34-year-old as a stop-gap signing for the rest of the season.

He said the right-back was simply helping to fill a short-on-numbers development outfit, as well as to allow him to build match fitness.

 

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2 hours ago, jamesmilner said:

You focus on negatives only . As a football academy LCFC is doing OK .Could it do better ? yeah , we all can in life .  I bet your great on a night out . 

I see you are back to being personal again...?? 

 

Out of interest, if you think it could do better, what would you propose is done as you seem to want to stifle debate and belittle people who put forward their views?  Or is "OK" good enough for you...?

 

If you look at my posts in this forum you will see i am rarely negative on any other subject....i just highlight where i think there are deficiencies in our Academy as a result of possibly being better informed than you? 

Just because you believe all the media hype, doesn't mean it necessarily paints the whole picture. Thankfully, we don't all read the SUN newspaper...!

 

Feel free to tell yourself the sky is blue every day if it makes you happy but it doesn't necessarily make people negative if they tell you it isn't when it isn't ...!

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16 minutes ago, Foxxed said:

To be fair, there's little debate in this thread. It's just a "Steve out, Steve out, Steve out" thread. Academy player does badly? Steve out. Academy player does well? Steve out. New academy complex? Steve out. U23s do well in the league? Steve out. U23s do badly in the league? Steve out.

....Steve out!!!

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18 minutes ago, Foxxed said:

To be fair, there's little debate in this thread. It's just a "Steve out, Steve out, Steve out" thread. Academy player does badly? Steve out. Academy player does well? Steve out. New academy complex? Steve out. U23s do well in the league? Steve out. U23s do badly in the league? Steve out.

You always manage to try and defend him though so it's not all negativity.

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21 minutes ago, Foxxed said:

To be fair, there's little debate in this thread. It's just a "Steve out, Steve out, Steve out" thread. Academy player does badly? Steve out. Academy player does well? Steve out. New academy complex? Steve out. U23s do well in the league? Steve out. U23s do badly in the league? Steve out.

.....perhaps it proves there are no debates to be had on this issue and the conclusion is what has been stated!!!

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50 minutes ago, Foxxed said:

To be fair, there's little debate in this thread. It's just a "Steve out, Steve out, Steve out" thread. Academy player does badly? Steve out. Academy player does well? Steve out. New academy complex? Steve out. U23s do well in the league? Steve out. U23s do badly in the league? Steve out.

Yep you’re right. Steve Out.

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36 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

You always manage to try and defend him though so it's not all negativity.

I know. It feels like I've backed myself into a corner!

 

Increasingly it feels a bit like this: you know when you're in a bar. And you notice the only woman there is the barmaid. And everyone's well dressed. And in twos. And you start to wonder.... I'm... I'm... I'm not... I'm not in a "soccer mom's" thread, right? lol

 

(Full disclosure. My interest is purely academic. I'll demand multiple DNA tests if mine get anywhere near professional sports...)

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1 hour ago, Foxxed said:

To be fair, there's little debate in this thread. It's just a "Steve out, Steve out, Steve out" thread. Academy player does badly? Steve out. Academy player does well? Steve out. New academy complex? Steve out. U23s do well in the league? Steve out. U23s do badly in the league? Steve out.

To be honest the fact that the academy has produced two massive financial assets in Chilwell and Barnes justifies enough of their work.
 

Players might be talented but it goes way beyond just what the coaches or manager can do with them, even if maybe they can do more, but like someone mentioned previously, everyone can in any role. 

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1 hour ago, Foxxed said:

To be fair, there's little debate in this thread. It's just a "Steve out, Steve out, Steve out" thread. Academy player does badly? Steve out. Academy player does well? Steve out. New academy complex? Steve out. U23s do well in the league? Steve out. U23s do badly in the league? Steve out.

I do appreciate that tbf, but I think for me a lot of it boils down to the notion that we've brought a very decent chunk of players through, and whilst Beaglehole does likely deserve some credit for that, I don't think you can say it was specifically him as the catalyst for doing so; it was likely a number of different youth coaches and the academy setup in general to thank for that. Which isn't to say he shouldn't get any plaudits for his part in it, but I find it unlikely he was the only contributing factor.

 

On the other hand, the abject playstyle of his team is something directly under his control. I don't think you can necessarily blame him for the fact we're struggling this season, the U18s are as well and that's not his jurisdiction for example. but the way we play at the moment is dire, and as the U23 manager it is him picking said tactics. It's also as far as I can tell exactly him picking who to play for the U23s and who to progress from the lower age groups, and albeit this season has been markedly better, he has in the past, as widely noted, ignored technical players for more physical ones when choosing players to move up the ranks.

 

I'd be happy for him to stay were he to change his focus towards changing how the unders play in line with the first team, and to his credit we are now loaning out more of our players, and as of right now there are far more players under 20/21 in the U21 lineups, which a lot of us have been crying out for for ages. Right now though, I feel as if we could do better and I feel as if that's not an unpopular feeling, despite the highs of recent prospect - and I can only judge him on the things he is directly in charge of, which I feel could be better.

Edited by The_Rorab
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4 hours ago, davieG said:

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/brendan-rodgers-rules-out-re-5000731?fbclid=IwAR3P6BZH1HRw0Ej5vyGLWdhFkedIjYXoo5J1F_UrG2AmfTVYnFumCJFuEE8

 

 

Brendan Rodgers rules out re-signing title-winner to fill James Justin void
The title-winning right-back filled a gap for the Under-23s this week as he builds his fitness amid a search for a new club, but it not going to be offered a deal

 

Simpson has spent time training with the club to allow him to keep up his fitness amid his search for a new side, but Rodgers ruled out looking at the 34-year-old as a stop-gap signing for the rest of the season.

He said the right-back was simply helping to fill a short-on-numbers development outfit, as well as to allow him to build match fitness.

 

I can’t believe Brendan even had to address this 

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20 minutes ago, TJB-fox said:

I can’t believe Brendan even had to address this 

Probably because on theirs and the Mercs FB page where it was noted that he'd signed and was playing there were plenty saying give him a longer contract etc.

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45 minutes ago, The_Rorab said:

I do appreciate that tbf, but I think for me a lot of it boils down to the notion that we've brought a very decent chunk of players through, and whilst Beaglehole does likely deserve some credit for that, I don't think you can say it was specifically him as the catalyst for doing so; it was likely a number of different youth coaches and the academy setup in general to thank for that. Which isn't to say he shouldn't get any plaudits for his part in it, but I find it unlikely he was the only contributing factor.

 

On the other hand, the abject playstyle of his team is something directly under his control. I don't think you can necessarily blame him for the fact we're struggling this season, the U18s are as well and that's not his jurisdiction for example. but the way we play at the moment is dire, and as the U23 manager it is him picking said tactics. It's also as far as I can tell exactly him picking who to play for the U23s and who to progress from the lower age groups, and albeit this season has been markedly better, he has in the past, as widely noted, ignored technical players for more physical ones when choosing players to move up the ranks.

 

I'd be happy for him to stay were he to change his focus towards changing how the unders play in line with the first team, and to his credit we are now loaning out more of our players, and as of right now there are far more players under 20/21 in the U21 lineups, which a lot of us have been crying out for for ages. Right now though, I feel as if we could do better and I feel as if that's not an unpopular feeling, despite the highs of recent prospect - and I can only judge him on the things he is directly in charge of, which I feel could be better.

Agree with most of what you say @The_Rorab, apart from this bit, do we really think it's his decision to suddenly start sending players out on loan or has that directive come from elsewhere? 

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2 hours ago, pmcla26 said:

To be honest the fact that the academy has produced two massive financial assets in Chilwell and Barnes justifies enough of their work.
 

Players might be talented but it goes way beyond just what the coaches or manager can do with them, even if maybe they can do more, but like someone mentioned previously, everyone can in any role. 

...I think with a lot of respect, both players have had little contact with the U23s and have not been institutionalised within that system!!!

I suspect other players coming through such as, Hamza, KDH and Josh Knight have had extensive stays in that environment but appears to be to their detriment. It should be interesting to see the career stats of Luke Thomas, Sidney Tavares might just be benefitting  from any omission from the U23s, he just does not realise it.

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