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Will Brendan Rodgers be judged on next season's results?

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7 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

Everything about discussing the internal affairs of a football club is guesswork. Some is more accurate than others. 

 

3rd in January, with owners who cover the Champions League and openly state they wanted to be there, with a publicly known 80m in the bank from the Maguire sale...do you think he'd have had any trouble improving the squad? 

 

I don't. At all. 

Still jumping to conclusions and guessing, just because the owners coveted Champions League doesn't mean they gave him more money to spend, then he actually spent.

 

7 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

He made his choices and its a valid criticism to say that he got it wrong. You keep going on about 'quality additions' but he hasn't made any.

Quote me where I said he'd made 'quality additions', I simply stated that the squad lack quality replacements for the starting 11 and that the statement "I like to work with a small squad" doesn't mean he doesn't want more quality 

 

7 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

 

The owners have furnished him with a whacking contract and are obviously happy to invest.

Like I said initially, just calling every game outstanding when it isn't real smacks of denial. After 18 months or so he's responsible for the state of the squad and he's chosen a small squad - as his preference - and has failed to add the quality. 

Yes they are, normally 20 m net spend a year, which is roughly what we spent this year, which suggested he spent most of his budget. 

 

Does he deserve criticism  of course he does for poor performance, tactics, team selections, poor signs etc.

 

But criticising him for not adding to a squad when you have no idea whether he had the funds to do so, seems a little odd.

 

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1 hour ago, coalvillefox said:

Here is another question, now that we have a place in Europe and a guaranteed additional 6 games, what would qualify as a good (not sacking Rodgers) season in 2020-2021?

For me its a top 6 finish, make it out of the Europa League group and last 8 of both cups

 

53 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

The days where our fans could credibly bleat on about how we should be happy with any kind of finish in the PL because we were in League One once is long gone.

 

We pay the eighth-highest wages in the league now and the bill is only going up. It is not unreasonable to have expectations of a top-half finish, even with a European campaign. Yes football is not as easy as that, and we are not entitled to anything, but it is simply not an unreasonable expectation.

 

If we really are paying him the third-highest salary of any manager in the league (embarrassing and outrageous) then he needs to deliver a top-half finish every season he is here as a minimum. End of. If we were to finish 15th, that is not good enough, even if we made the final of all three cups we will be in.

I think the top 7 might not be involved in the League Cup this season due to fixture congestion.

 

As for minimum expectations, depending on injuries, I'd say around 9th-10th and a good cup run. Around 7th-8th with early cup exits.

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2 hours ago, Costock_Fox said:

If you end the season like we have and have a bad to start to a new season, you are under huge pressure immediately.

 

He needs to bring in some new players to freshen it up and hope they hit the ground running or he will be under pressure in my opinion.

Absolutely and quite right he should be too. He's got a very talented young squad and, if all of our players are back plus any additions, if after the finish we've had to this season he doesn’t start winning pretty soon then it's down to him!

 

There can be no more excuses now, he's not just arrived and it's not as if he's taken over a teams with problems like Pearson or Puel or a squad that needs drastically rebuilding. I personally don't want to hear any bollocks about philosophies from him, it's up to him to get the best out of the players we've got and get results now. There are plenty of managers in the Premiership that would love to have our squad of players to chose from. Time for him to put up or shut up.

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This is his most important window of his career, makes a mess of it and the form of the last 6 months continues into this season and he's in trouble. That's when he'll start making subtle public digs at the owners about not being backed properly and how Leicester shouldn't be challenging the top clubs in an attempt to pass the buck. I've seen the movie before, Rodgers will wax lyrical about the owners when everything is going well but as soon as things unravel he'll not hesitate to throw them under the bus, it was the same at Liverpool and at Celtic.

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14 minutes ago, Muzzy_Larsson said:

This is his most important window of his career, makes a mess of it and the form of the last 6 months continues into this season and he's in trouble. That's when he'll start making subtle public digs at the owners about not being backed properly and how Leicester shouldn't be challenging the top clubs in an attempt to pass the buck. I've seen the movie before, Rodgers will wax lyrical about the owners when everything is going well but as soon as things unravel he'll not hesitate to throw them under the bus, it was the same at Liverpool and at Celtic.

I wouldn't put it past him from what I've seen the previous few months. The man seems to be incapable of publicly admitting he ever makes mistakes.

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3 hours ago, coalvillefox said:

Here is another question, now that we have a place in Europe and a guaranteed additional 6 games, what would qualify as a good (not sacking Rodgers) season in 2020-2021?

For me its a top 6 finish, make it out of the Europa League group and last 8 of both cups

That seems quite harsh to be honest.

 

You can't surely expect a top 6 finish or be sacked scenario that is way over the top especially given we will have to play loads of games next season.

 

I'd say the 'bare miniumum' for sacking to be out of the question is finishing anywhere above lower mid table, doesnt have to be top half but well safe from relegation trouble. That is assuming decent progression deep into in the Cups - Europa, FA and League.

 

If we are dumped out of those 3 early and are not close to the top half then questions will have to be asked.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ian S said:

Speak for yourself.Claudio had just won the title so merited a bit more time.

No he didn’t. The club was going down. Neither deserves “more time” if the clubs objectives are not being met. We are spending a sodding fortune to break the mould. The club can’t accept mediocrity or worse. 
 

Brendan has been brought in and paid to make the team competitive on both domestic and European fronts. The club, I have no doubt will back him in the market, therefore I would expect no leniency if results are not going well. 
 

 

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I'd rather measure success based on points rather than league position. Our points tally this season would generally see us finish 7th most seasons in the past 10 years.

 

I think the aim has to be to achieve at least the same amount of points. It's hard with cup competitions as a lot depends on the circumstances. Who you draw, are they taking it seriously. So all I ask is that we aim to get as far as possible and don't field severely weakened teams.

 

We should walk through the group stage of the Europa though having seen the potential pots. There's only a handful of teams we should be wary of.

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41 minutes ago, filbertway said:

I wouldn't put it past him from what I've seen the previous few months. The man seems to be incapable of publicly admitting he ever makes mistakes.

After not starting Hamza in the Villa first leg: "“Our biggest problem in the first half was our pressing. We weren’t aggressive enough. That’s down to me." “Yeah [I should have started Choudhury], that’s my fault.”

After losing at Everton: "I assume the responsibility for that. Results and performances is my job. Thankfully for how we’ve performed for a good portion of this season got us into a good position. We still have it in our hands to achieve what would be a dream for us and get into the top four."

After losing at Bournemouth: "A big apology to the supporters because that was unacceptable from a Leicester City team."

 

Away from Leicester:

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2014/11/brendan-rodgers-takes-responsibility-liverpools-defeat-crystal-palace/

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/3261834/brendan-rodgers-celtic-he-is-to-blame-stuttering-start-team-changes/

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/liverpool/brendan-rodgers-ready-to-face-the-music-after-liverpool-are-thrashed-by-stoke-31250182.html

 

Managers will very rarely admit mistakes in public because it threatens to show to the supporters and ownership that he hasn't got a clue how to run a team. Rodgers admits mistakes no more or less than any other.

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1 hour ago, winteriscoming said:

He will also be judged on the players he brings in and whether they go straight into the starting XI. Not 1 of his signings so far is a guaranteed starter. 

I disagree. The closer you get to the top, the harder it becomes to find players better than what you've already got.

 

I think the first XI with everyone available is very good. Most positions are pretty difficult for us to currently improve upon, because we're competing with the elite for the few players that are an improvement, realistic and within our budget. For example, who could we realistically sign who would get in ahead of Vardy, Ndidi, Evans, Ricardo, Maddison, etc.? I'm struggling.

 

I don't expect all our signings to go straight into the first XI currently. One or two, maybe, but what's most important right now is that we add some quality to the bench.

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27 minutes ago, filbertway said:

I'd rather measure success based on points rather than league position. Our points tally this season would generally see us finish 7th most seasons in the past 10 years.

 

I think the aim has to be to achieve at least the same amount of points. It's hard with cup competitions as a lot depends on the circumstances. Who you draw, are they taking it seriously. So all I ask is that we aim to get as far as possible and don't field severely weakened teams.

 

We should walk through the group stage of the Europa though having seen the potential pots. There's only a handful of teams we should be wary of.

I'm not sold on this. The strength of the competition varies each season, so getting points is easier some years than others. This affects league position, as well, but position is a more accurate gauge of success, I think. Besides, you may have nothing to play for with a few games left and field a bunch of kids, or sacrifice some league games to put out a stronger side in the cups if you're safe and can't get into Europe.

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If he doesn't get backed by the club with players that match the expectation of the club then it's time to leave. Just like Celtic. What's the point of working for someone who doesn't support you? But this is all BS isn't it. Because no one here has a xxxxing clue what goes on behind the closed doors of this club. Play on :)

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4 hours ago, ealingfox said:

The days where our fans could credibly bleat on about how we should be happy with any kind of finish in the PL because we were in League One once is long gone.

 

We pay the eighth-highest wages in the league now and the bill is only going up. It is not unreasonable to have expectations of a top-half finish, even with a European campaign. Yes football is not as easy as that, and we are not entitled to anything, but it is simply not an unreasonable expectation.

 

If we really are paying him the third-highest salary of any manager in the league (embarrassing and outrageous) then he needs to deliver a top-half finish every season he is here as a minimum. End of. If we were to finish 15th, that is not good enough, even if we made the final of all three cups we will be in.

I agree, and think many would!

But I've heard lots of minimum of top 6, cup final and Europa quarters or more.  That is a 'delusion of grandeur'.

We have made huge progress since our arrival in the premier league but when our fans say we should be finishing regularly in the Top 6 I think it is unrealistic when you look at the big money clubs (Arsenal, Spurs) and how hard it can be for them now.

My first live-in-person game was when we played Notts County in the Zenith Data Systems Cup.  We've made it into Europe and some fans are treating it like a less important competition than that!!  

Please, lets not get entitled!

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1 hour ago, Raw Dykes said:

I'm not sold on this. The strength of the competition varies each season, so getting points is easier some years than others. This affects league position, as well, but position is a more accurate gauge of success, I think. Besides, you may have nothing to play for with a few games left and field a bunch of kids, or sacrifice some league games to put out a stronger side in the cups if you're safe and can't get into Europe.

Mmmm, I'd agree if there was a big change every year but look at previous tables back to 2010. 62 points gets you 7th or joint 6th almost every season.

 

I think points gained is a much better gauge of how you are doing rather than league position personally. It's something measurable. It's a personal opinion thing I suppose. I see the merits in both, but for me, points is a better indicator of progress rather than league position.

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1 hour ago, SO1 said:

If he doesn't get backed by the club with players that match the expectation of the club then it's time to leave. Just like Celtic. What's the point of working for someone who doesn't support you? But this is all BS isn't it. Because no one here has a xxxxing clue what goes on behind the closed doors of this club. Play on :)

He will surely be backed, we're paying him more than Klopp. It'd be stupid to give the guy a ridiculously high paying contract that essentially ties him to us without backing him in the market. 

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