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Our Internationals 2020/21

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2 minutes ago, Sunbury Fox said:

Interesting how Ross Barkley, having been a regular starter for England when he was a reserve and off form at Chelsea, now finds himself out of the squad altogether, despite playing every week in the PL for Villa - and playing exceptionally well. Would have been a far better option than Winks.

Can’t really argue with this ..........it’s so transparent ....

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8 minutes ago, Muzzy_Larsson said:

Have England not perfrmed pretty well at youth level in the last 10 years, a couple of world cups at different levels? Personally I think the major problem is in nations like France, Germany and Spain young players get chances and play 200 odd games by the time they are in their early 20s, that doesn't happen with young English players much at all in the premier league, they end up spending their key developmental years on the bench or bouncing from club to club on loan.

 

I'm not bashing Maddison on this thread I think the Maddison of 12-18 months ago is a great player but he has a lot to prove again imo and I don't think he and Grealish can play in the same side. 12-18 months ago him and Grealish were neck and neck and in the time since one has kicked on and become one of the league's top players while the other, admittedly through bad luck and injury has stalled. This season is huge for Maddison imo if he is to kick on and reach the level Grealsh has and fulfil his potential.

The last few games Maddison has played he's demonstrated not only how good he is at the moment but signposts the world class player he will develop into. We are far from peak Maddison and he's in the best place for the next few years for his development. I don't necessarily think you can't play him and Grealish together. Grealish is very adaptable and will play higher up the pitch than Maddison.

 

There is no substitute for talent, its up to the manager to get the best out of what you've got.  It would be interesting to understand how Brenden might accommodate them both in the same team.

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1 hour ago, Kingleicester said:

There is no denying grealish is quite special,  by far England’s best attacking midfielder, yes he’s a ****, but he reminds of Gazza how he plays, blokes a quality footballer  

He is, but he didn’t run the show.

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15 minutes ago, Paddy. said:

England's issue is they have a poor manager. There's no lack of talent or technical ability but they have a Championship-standard manager in charge. 

I think this is definitely true to some extent as England certainly have lots of good attacking options, which Southgate is wasting. But that said, even if we had the best manager in the world, we look terribly weak at GK and CB.It's a real shame Dean Henderson is sitting on the bench at Man U as he would make a big difference in goal. Pickford is well off being a top class keeper. Meanwhile, even in his current dire form, Maguire is probably the stand out available option at CB, which tells you everything. But we desperately need to find some good young CBs. I wonder if it is worth trying Rice there? Got to be better than Dier or Keane.

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7 minutes ago, Red Squirrel said:

The last few games Maddison has played he's demonstrated not only how good he is at the moment but signposts the world class player he will develop into. We are far from peak Maddison and he's in the best place for the next few years for his development. I don't necessarily think you can't play him and Grealish together. Grealish is very adaptable and will play higher up the pitch than Maddison.

 

There is no substitute for talent, its up to the manager to get the best out of what you've got.  It would be interesting to understand how Brenden might accommodate them both in the same team.

World class is over egging it a bit imo. World class to me is one of the best 3 or 4 players in the world in your position. I don’t think Maddison will ever be at that level, not that there’s any shame in that of course. He still has everything required to be a top EPL and international player but the next two years are key for him, he’s 24 soon and will be entering his peak years in the next few years.

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1 hour ago, Muzzy_Larsson said:

Maddison doesn't get near the England squad at the minute. Also you'd get absoluely murdered playing essentially 5 attacking midfielders/strikers, particularly with that defence. England need to play two holding players to protect the weakest area of the side, the defence.

He does if Harry Winks, Ward-Prowse/Jude Bellingham and Mason Mount get called up and picked regularly, he's better than them all.

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Just now, Muzzy_Larsson said:

They are all playing regularly though. Maddison isn’t, regardless of opinion of who is the better player.

Maddison has played a lot of football this last month since he's been back fit? Harry Winks barely plays, nor does Bellingham. 

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Wait a minute the goalkeeper of the team at the top of the Premier League was possibly knocked out and didn’t play the second half and ITV didn’t even mention it in their highlights of the game?

 

Imagine if that was a Liverpool player?!

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2 minutes ago, Phube said:

Wait a minute the goalkeeper of the team at the top of the Premier League was possibly knocked out and didn’t play the second half and ITV didn’t even mention it in their highlights of the game?

 

Imagine if that was a Liverpool player?!

They haven't got any left 😂😂😂😂

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35 minutes ago, Sunbury Fox said:

Interesting how Ross Barkley, having been a regular starter for England when he was a reserve and off form at Chelsea, now finds himself out of the squad altogether, despite playing every week in the PL for Villa - and playing exceptionally well. Would have been a far better option than Winks.

My view is the last time barkley played we mullered a team

He plays the 8 role southgate likes behind two wide players well when coached right despite his previous struggles. Grealish for all his ability is tactically undisciplined for a southgate 3-4-3, roams everywhere which is fine when a team is built around you like at villa but for a stuck in the mud coach like a southgate or jose that will causes issues.I'd play him in a 8 behind two wide men, but not where he played tonight as he left his role and that causes issues.

 

My sense is rashford Kane Sterling, and then Winks Henderson, and maybe Phillips will be southgates three when the euros come around.

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13 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Maddison has played a lot of football this last month since he's been back fit? Harry Winks barely plays, nor does Bellingham. 

I totally get having this conversation 12-18 months ago when he was arguably the best English player in his position in the league but I genuinely don’t understand how he merits getting in the England squad at the minute.

 

Maybe there are players in the squad who are also undeserving but that’s a different debate and surely a discussion on how the manager isn’t fit for purpose. That argument is feeble imo when arguing that Maddison should be being picked. Playground stuff.

 

let him get consistent starts in the league and start showing the form of 18 months ago again and then shout from the rooftops rightly about his inclusion. He’s played 270 minutes of premier league football this season for example.

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50 minutes ago, Muzzy_Larsson said:

Have England not perfrmed pretty well at youth level in the last 10 years, a couple of world cups at different levels? Personally I think the major problem is in nations like France, Germany and Spain young players get chances and play 200 odd games by the time they are in their early 20s, that doesn't happen with young English players much at all in the premier league, they end up spending their key developmental years on the bench or bouncing from club to club on loan.

 

I'm not bashing Maddison on this thread I think the Maddison of 12-18 months ago is a great player but he has a lot to prove again imo and I don't think he and Grealish can play in the same side. 12-18 months ago him and Grealish were neck and neck and in the time since one has kicked on and become one of the league's top players while the other, admittedly through bad luck and injury has stalled. This season is huge for Maddison imo if he is to kick on and reach the level Grealsh has and fulfil his potential.

They have done well, but that football is very different to the top class game, and often the top players at that level do not go onto become stand out players at full level.

 

Regarding Grealish and Maddison, I agree Grealish is the better player. But my point isn't about playing or the other, it's playing both! Grealish is a ball carrier and dribbler, that's how he makes things happens. Maddison is more of the passing type. I can't think of one top level game against a tier one opponent in the last 20 years where I would say that England have "control" of the game. Even tonight, they dominated possession, but Belgium controlled the game and let it take place where they wanted it to. That's why every tournament is the same old story for England, the first good team they play beats them.

 

Perhaps Maddison isn't the answer, but until an England manager changes the style, they will always get found out as proved in the last World Cup.

 

What would probably work very well with English players is a high press style like Liverpool play, but there is a reason why no international team plays that way - it's not possible! You need to work with the same set of players day in, day out for years to get good at it and International managers don't have that time.

 

The French team that won the World Cup played pretty boring football, but controlled pretty much every game they were in. England haven't been able to do that in literally decades.

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2 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Barkley has been class as well, it's enough evidence to seriously question Southgate and the media ought to be. 

It's odd not to select and play Barkley ahead of Mount knowing the interplay he has with Grealish.

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1 hour ago, FoyleFox said:

Positive update from Denmark boss Hjulmand: “Kasper was never unconscious. However, there was no doubt he should not continue playing.

“He looked better after the match. We have to see what it looks like from here. We hope nothing serious has happened to Kasper.” 

Very good to hear. I hope there's no 'delayed concussion' though... 

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What’s really disappointing, yet unsurprising is that every thing Southgate did well pre-world cup has been left behind. What Southgate did well was making bold decisions. The friendly wins against Brazil and another side when he first bought in maguire was a glimpse that he might make some drastic changes and give a new group of players a platform. 

 

I’m under no illusion that we blagged almost every result of that World Cup but he definitely got something correct. Now however, he simply is too afraid to lose (same old English story). He needs to build an identity around our strengths, sure we might lose a few but it will only improve through working at it. 

 

I will say though that international management must be a pain in the arse. Because what manager does like chopping and changing constantly. It’s less about the players left out for me and more about how he is approaching things. 

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I often wonder if the “big 6” teams lean on the England set-up. It would make sense to me.

 

We all know that a player having a cap for England increases the price tag by several million, so it’s to their advantage to ensure that by stifling the international careers of those outside the top 6 (a) stops the player becoming too expensive for them to make the deal viable, (b) makes the player want to move as the player knows they’ll get a better chance of making the national squad at one of those clubs, and (c) helps keep the other clubs (ie. the likes of us) in their rightful place.  If it so happens that the player breaks into the England set-up and can no longer be ignored (see Maguire and Chilwell) then there will be a mass campaign to get them to a top club ASAP.

 

The irony is that these clubs then will, when convenient to the club, encourage the players to have injuries/knocks which last only during the international break.

 

 

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