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38 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Stellaris is the "EU4 in space" so I don't think it's that. To be honest, recent reviews of SM are really positive. It just got panned at launch because there just wasn't much to do. 

That's fair. But honestly, I've got the base game and I've been having a ball so far - that it isn't as extensive as other PI games is a far criticism but personally I think there's more than enough to stick your teeth into unless you are a micromanagement and minutae fanati-

 

,,,,damn, I'm pretty much describing 90% of the PI fandom there, aren't I?

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10 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Crusader Kings is right up there with Rimworld in encouraging some of the most deplorable human behaviour for gameplay goals lol

Lol, I mean you have a job and gotta do what you gotta do.

 

Just got that bit from the "Polygon" review:

 

"At one point, while playing as Matilda of Tuscany around the year 1100, my own son offered to marry me. Politically and militarily it was the right thing to do, as it would have consolidated our dynastic holdings following the death of my husband. But neither my religious obligations to my faith (the Pope frowns on incest, as you can imagine) nor my ongoing love affair with the Holy Roman Emperor (with whom I shared a venereal disease, by the way) provided an incentive for me to get in bed with my own son. In gameplay terms, the hit to my reputation (both Piety and Prestige) would have been catastrophic. It would also have increased my stress, driving me ever closer to madness.

 

Morality has an in-game cost, but so does inaction. I did what any other conscientious ruler in the 12th century would do — and murdered my younger son instead."

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2 hours ago, That_Dude said:

Without having played, it seems indeed brillant. Like @Finnegan said, these games are very time consuming. Insanely rewarding when you're ready to  sacrifice tens of hours to just learn how the game works and know what you're doing, completely frustrating when you don't. CK3 seems to be the most accessible although I definitely get the distinct feeling of being a bit of a monkey with a keyboard at times.

Not sure if they're still going but Matrix Games and Slitherine Games (I think they used to be the same company) used to be another one like Paradox who were known for their insanely complicated games back when I used to game a bit more.

 

Me and an old work collegue got into Distant Worlds and Gary Grigsby's War in the East, this must be almost a decade ago now. War in the East simulated every single unit and weather condition on the entire Eastern Front of WWII. It managed to be even more complicated than Hearts of Iron III (I think there's been at least one more Hearts of Iron since so not sure how it compares).

 

I remember Dwarf Fortress being a big game back then too and getting into it once I worked it out. I just googled Rimworld someone mentioned and it seems a similar type of thing. From what I gather Dwarf Fortress is still being developed and even more complicated than it was back then?

 

These always tended to be the games I liked and people got into in my old office. The problem is they take a long time to learn, but I guess those kind of complex games with a thousand different stats being worked out at once is exactly what appeals to people in IT, Data, Computing and those kinds of jobs.

Edited by Sampson
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Love the CK series and indeed most Paradox games but:
 

a) I always wait until all/most of the DLC is out and there's a bundled sale. Happy to play a game or two behind.

 

b) I do have time for gaming, but probably not time for a Paradox game now. They just leech my life. I love it but I realise a month has gone and I've not done so much as go for a walk.

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3 hours ago, Finnegan said:

Just murder all your other children before you die. Problem solved. 

But what if your last living child dies before you do? Much safer to make the murder of your brothers your first act as King.

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3 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

Just to come back to this - those of you that have played it; is it actually a decently featured game at release?

Yeah I think so. Infinitely better than Imperator was at release. I've got about 30 hours in it so far and far from bored.

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Just now, That_Dude said:

Most definitely. Thought you were out though :P.

I still think I am. Releasing paid for DLC at launch just feels a bit... off?

 

If it didn't exist, I'd have the full product, but when it exists, you know you're not getting the full experience as intended.

 

Got enough else going on anyway; but if I ever have a few quiet days at work, I know I'll be tempted (but I could just do CK2).

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46 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

I still think I am. Releasing paid for DLC at launch just feels a bit... off?

 

If it didn't exist, I'd have the full product, but when it exists, you know you're not getting the full experience as intended.

 

Got enough else going on anyway; but if I ever have a few quiet days at work, I know I'll be tempted (but I could just do CK2).

It's not like they've released the DLC yet. If it was content ready to go on release day and they were making you pay for it then I'd agree that'd be taking the piss. They've just said 'we're going to have time to add content to the game in the future - you can pre-order it if you want - or not'. I don't think that's a huge issue as long as they're providing a game that is fleshed out enough when it's released. They've just alloted time for extra-development and are giving you the option to purchase whatever it is they'll add ahead of time if you trust the company enough.

CK3 is a good enough game to be worth the money in its current state. And whenever a Paradox game isn't good enough to be worth the money on release I think they tend to get it to that state with free patches before they start selling DLC. They're not a company that leaves a game unplayable without the DLC. There's only so much they can plan, develop, test, and QA in a certain amount of time, and generally the base game is worth what they charge. And often the actual DLC (not necessarily expansion packs) are worth what they cost too. By the time you get to the DLC you've probably invested a ton of time and loved the base game as it is.

I think the fury should be directed at companies like EA who release half-arsed games and give you the option to pay for essentially nothing, not at companies who release brilliant games, and pretty damn good DLC.

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26 minutes ago, stripeyfox said:

I'd not heard of this series before, but I do quite like the look of it.


Is there an "end" to the game, or can it just go on and on like in Civ?

 

It has an end date, not 100% sure when it is, but presumably it’s around when EU4 starts so 15th century.

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2 hours ago, stripeyfox said:

I'd not heard of this series before, but I do quite like the look of it.


Is there an "end" to the game, or can it just go on and on like in Civ?

 

 

1 hour ago, Mark_w said:

It has an end date, not 100% sure when it is, but presumably it’s around when EU4 starts so 15th century.

Official ending is 1453 (Fall of Constantinople, I presume), but you can set it to "no end date" in the game rules before starting a new playthrough.

Edited by That_Dude
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Got some ideas for psychological and biological warfare.

 

I'm now trying to breed a branch of mentally instable heirs and watching for those with transmissible diseases (like syphilis) to marry them off to (potential) rivals.

Edited by That_Dude
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