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4 minutes ago, Hammo said:

Mendy’s performance yesterday was just about flawless. His retention of possession and positional sense were straight out of the coaching manual for a modern defensive midfielder.

 

It was the kind of immaculate display that goes unnoticed by neutral observers because there is nothing fancy or headline-grabbing about it - hence the average player ratings it got in various media outlets - but when it is for the team you support you fully appreciate how important a contribution it is towards helping the team to victory.

 

If he continues to play like that all season, then those comparisons to Kante will no longer look misplaced.

What a shame he has had the injury problems he has had.

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It was a joy to watch Mendy yesterday especially in the first half. His positional sense was immaculate, revolving around the action, making himself available when there was a lack of space for others to take the pass and regain composure to look for and create the opportunity to move forward, linking up with Tielemans. They are complementing each other superbly. 

Edited by Cadno'r Cymoedd
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11 hours ago, Lesta2014 said:

If only we could combine Mendy’s simple passing game with wilf tackling and heading ability! 2 excellent players for the holding role, trust both to do an outstanding job whichever is picked


I totally agree ...  soon modern technology will be able to combine two people together and we could mix the two ...   and we’d call him Wendy ...   :thumbup:

 

Seriously though ...   of all the amazing players that have stepped up to fill places due to injury I’d say the little man ..  may ..  just may ..   have overtaken the person he has filled in for as first choice.

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Unless his form drastically drops id play mendy ahead of ndidi. If you look at the 2nd half  of last season when we collapsed, i think ndidi played all those key games  villa  (cup), spurs, man u , bournemouth , Everton, Liverpool,  city, watford league in no particular order. I can't recall if he was faultless but given he plays such a key position, I'm sure he had a bearing. Mendy on form gives you more control. With 3 big cbs we probably don't need his height as much too.

 

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45 minutes ago, John12345 said:

Unless his form drastically drops id play mendy ahead of ndidi. If you look at the 2nd half  of last season when we collapsed, i think ndidi played all those key games  villa  (cup), spurs, man u , bournemouth , Everton, Liverpool,  city, watford league in no particular order. I can't recall if he was faultless but given he plays such a key position, I'm sure he had a bearing. Mendy on form gives you more control. With 3 big cbs we probably don't need his height as much too.

 


 

steady on chap.  The big clubs were not sniffing around ndidi for no reason

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14 minutes ago, MPH said:


 

steady on chap.  The big clubs were not sniffing around ndidi for no reason


I’m not saying I’d play N’Didi (who looked irreplaceable) or Mendy. It’s not as simple as that.
 

But when a player really makes the side tick, sometimes it means another player, who in this instance is in incredible talent, has to sit out for a while. N’Didi, Evans and Soyuncu being injured at the same time meant we had to change our style. It just happened to work out that that’s exactly what we needed at the time. 
 

Horses for courses, and I think they’ll both miss out on games. Not because one is better than the other, but because they both suit a different set up. 
 

It’s a fantastic problem to have, and providing Rodgers can keep everyone happy, it’ll see us do very well this season. 

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55 minutes ago, Leeds Fox said:


I’m not saying I’d play N’Didi (who looked irreplaceable) or Mendy. It’s not as simple as that.
 

But when a player really makes the side tick, sometimes it means another player, who in this instance is in incredible talent, has to sit out for a while. N’Didi, Evans and Soyuncu being injured at the same time meant we had to change our style. It just happened to work out that that’s exactly what we needed at the time. 
 

Horses for courses, and I think they’ll both miss out on games. Not because one is better than the other, but because they both suit a different set up. 
 

It’s a fantastic problem to have, and providing Rodgers can keep everyone happy, it’ll see us do very well this season. 

I think who gets rotated in all depends on how match fit and sharp they look in training. Ricky, Cags and Timmy to a lesser degree will need some time getting back to their best no matter how ready they are mentally. Anyway, thats why Brendan and his backroom staff get paid the big bucks. It's their job to manage that very carefully. :thumbup: 

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8 hours ago, Costock_Fox said:

Times have certainly changed reading this thread lol

 

Honestly love the bloke. Went for a run that finished at the KP on Sunday and I was waiting for my lift back when the players were arriving. Pretty sure he was driving with a booster seat.

Haha, he's not that tiny!

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12 hours ago, Leeds Fox said:


I’m not saying I’d play N’Didi (who looked irreplaceable) or Mendy. It’s not as simple as that.
 

But when a player really makes the side tick, sometimes it means another player, who in this instance is in incredible talent, has to sit out for a while. N’Didi, Evans and Soyuncu being injured at the same time meant we had to change our style. It just happened to work out that that’s exactly what we needed at the time. 
 

Horses for courses, and I think they’ll both miss out on games. Not because one is better than the other, but because they both suit a different set up. 
 

It’s a fantastic problem to have, and providing Rodgers can keep everyone happy, it’ll see us do very well this season. 

 

 

I think we can both agree that the loser here is Hamza.

 

 

 

 

But what an amazing game Hamza just had too!

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13 hours ago, Leeds Fox said:


I’m not saying I’d play N’Didi (who looked irreplaceable) or Mendy. It’s not as simple as that.
 

But when a player really makes the side tick, sometimes it means another player, who in this instance is in incredible talent, has to sit out for a while. N’Didi, Evans and Soyuncu being injured at the same time meant we had to change our style. It just happened to work out that that’s exactly what we needed at the time. 
 

Horses for courses, and I think they’ll both miss out on games. Not because one is better than the other, but because they both suit a different set up. 
 

It’s a fantastic problem to have, and providing Rodgers can keep everyone happy, it’ll see us do very well this season. 

Ndidi walks back in for me. Fully fit he’s what we’re missing from being genuine title contenders. a midfield 3 of Wilf, Tielemens and Maddison is incredible.

The question for me is Under or Soyuncu. 5 at the back is working but I don’t know about Soyuncu in that formation so 433 with Under might be the best.

Ndidi back instead of Mendy means that Maddison can play in the hole and not need to track back as much , which would create more space and chances for Vards.

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On 03/11/2020 at 22:05, Haywood_6 said:

Exceeded expectations so far this season.

 

I used to think he was average but now he's probably one of my first names on the team sheet

Clearly Brendan and managers past have made a mistake in the past about not using him

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1 hour ago, deanolegend1989 said:

Ndidi walks back in for me. Fully fit he’s what we’re missing from being genuine title contenders. a midfield 3 of Wilf, Tielemens and Maddison is incredible.

The question for me is Under or Soyuncu. 5 at the back is working but I don’t know about Soyuncu in that formation so 433 with Under might be the best.

Ndidi back instead of Mendy means that Maddison can play in the hole and not need to track back as much , which would create more space and chances for Vards.

This point has been discussed at length before and can’t agree with you. With Ndidi and Chilwell, we do not seem to be able to get the ball up well, which is exactly why Maddison or Tielemens needed to track back more to help get the ball up. With Mendy it helps release Maddison to go up in the hole.

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On 09/11/2020 at 10:03, Countryfox said:


I totally agree ...  soon modern technology will be able to combine two people together and we could mix the two ...   and we’d call him Wendy ...   :thumbup:

 

Seriously though ...   of all the amazing players that have stepped up to fill places due to injury I’d say the little man ..  may ..  just may ..   have overtaken the person he has filled in for as first choice.

Prefer Milf myself.

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3 minutes ago, Tom12345 said:

This point has been discussed at length before and can’t agree with you. With Ndidi and Chilwell, we do not seem to be able to get the ball up well, which is exactly why Maddison or Tielemens needed to track back more to help get the ball up. With Mendy it helps release Maddison to go up in the hole.

Our form recently has covered up our flaws as such. As mentioned in another thread by@Nicolo Barella when he said he was very concerned by our lack of creativity and relying on penalties And our luck will run out, I couldn’t agree more.
We are incredibly defensive and it’s great when we’re winning and scoring first, but it is hampering our ability to play attacking football and our chance creation rate is well down this season.

When the results are going well it’s not a huge issue, but it’s not sustainable imo.

However I think, as well as Mendy has done, he hasn’t got the fitness and fades in nearly every game 2nd half which is hugely effecting us and Ndidi will make a huge difference in this and that’s why he walks straight back in when fit.

If Ndidi was playing yesterday 2nd half, we arnt so desperately covering and would be able to keep more players forward to relief the constant wave after wave of pressure.


Its working well and getting 6 wins in a row is fantastic however we’ve had some luck getting a cheap pen rather than creating to enable us to play so negatively vs Wolves, or a huge mistake from Leeds to get ahead then too and Arsenal scored a goal that debatably should of stood and that helped us to not have to ‘come out’ as such.

We’ve not had to chase a game from behind or concede an equaliser in this run so it hides what I’d still maintain is our weakness.
I won’t be 1 bit suprised that in the next game we concede first, we will get nothing from that game playing this way.


Mendy will be decent cover but when Wilfs fully fit he’s straight back in and could be that little extra we need to stay where we are right now.

I’d argue Soyuncu we are ok without if we have Forfana and Evans, but Ndidi and Ricardo are huge upgrades on Mendy and Albrighton/Justin respectively.

Obviously slowly get them back in because of the nature and seriousness of their injuries but ultimately when fully fit there’s no doubt they will take us to another level. 

 

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27 minutes ago, deanolegend1989 said:

Our form recently has covered up our flaws as such. As mentioned in another thread by@Nicolo Barella when he said he was very concerned by our lack of creativity and relying on penalties And our luck will run out, I couldn’t agree more.
We are incredibly defensive and it’s great when we’re winning and scoring first, but it is hampering our ability to play attacking football and our chance creation rate is well down this season.

When the results are going well it’s not a huge issue, but it’s not sustainable imo.

However I think, as well as Mendy has done, he hasn’t got the fitness and fades in nearly every game 2nd half which is hugely effecting us and Ndidi will make a huge difference in this and that’s why he walks straight back in when fit.

If Ndidi was playing yesterday 2nd half, we arnt so desperately covering and would be able to keep more players forward to relief the constant wave after wave of pressure.


Its working well and getting 6 wins in a row is fantastic however we’ve had some luck getting a cheap pen rather than creating to enable us to play so negatively vs Wolves, or a huge mistake from Leeds to get ahead then too and Arsenal scored a goal that debatably should of stood and that helped us to not have to ‘come out’ as such.

We’ve not had to chase a game from behind or concede an equaliser in this run so it hides what I’d still maintain is our weakness.
I won’t be 1 bit suprised that in the next game we concede first, we will get nothing from that game playing this way.


Mendy will be decent cover but when Wilfs fully fit he’s straight back in and could be that little extra we need to stay where we are right now.

I’d argue Soyuncu we are ok without if we have Forfana and Evans, but Ndidi and Ricardo are huge upgrades on Mendy and Albrighton/Justin respectively.

Obviously slowly get them back in because of the nature and seriousness of their injuries but ultimately when fully fit there’s no doubt they will take us to another level. 

 

Us being ultra defensive is a separate issue to Mendy v Ndidi. I agree that creativity remains an issue but I don’t recall that we were any better with Ndidi - in fact Puel ball was a term regularly used last season when Ndidi was playing.

 

Against Wolves - we had some 7 or 8 defensive players on the pitch at once after Morgan came in! That is parking the bus alright! But again - different issue to Mendy v Ndidi. In fact, Ndidi’s relative lack of passing ability is a significant handicap to is being creative. (Ndidi can and will improve in this area though.)

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7 minutes ago, Tom12345 said:

Us being ultra defensive is a separate issue to Mendy v Ndidi. I agree that creativity remains an issue but I don’t recall that we were any better with Ndidi - in fact Puel ball was a term regularly used last season when Ndidi was playing.

 

Against Wolves - we had some 7 or 8 defensive players on the pitch at once after Morgan came in! That is parking the bus alright! But again - different issue to Mendy v Ndidi. In fact, Ndidi’s relative lack of passing ability is a significant handicap to is being creative. (Ndidi can and will improve in this area though.)

For me it’s not a separate issue because Ndidi is a lot stronger, fitter and can get about the midfield better. That in turn would allow us to get our more with the front 3 and Tielemens.

When Mendy is in, we have to over compensate for his lack of fitness by collectively dropping completely as a team which then destroys our attacking creativity.

As said it’s ok when we’re winning but it’ll be an issue when we concede first.

Mendy has done ok don’t get me wrong but Ndidi in this team will push us to an even better team.

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4 minutes ago, deanolegend1989 said:

For me it’s not a separate issue because Ndidi is a lot stronger, fitter and can get about the midfield better. That in turn would allow us to get our more with the front 3 and Tielemens.

When Mendy is in, we have to over compensate for his lack of fitness by collectively dropping completely as a team which then destroys our attacking creativity.

As said it’s ok when we’re winning but it’ll be an issue when we concede first.

Mendy has done ok don’t get me wrong but Ndidi in this team will push us to an even better team.

 

I think you are way off the mark on Mendy's fitness, his size means he is more mobile than most, and he vary rarely goes missing because he knows his job. Both he and Youri faded a bit versus Wolves 2nd half, but it was the end of a busy run, the side as a whole were under pressure, and the pair of them were still disciplined til the end. I was half expecting Hamza to come on for the extra legs, but we know what happened last time that was tried.

 

Our ability to play out and retain possession is significantly better with Papy. You do lose of Wilf's world-class tackling ability of course, but Papy is clever with his positioning and anticipation, so it isn't quite as clear cut as the statistics suggest.

 

Overall, Wilf going straight back in (when fully fit) is a reasonable position to take, he is a monster of a player, and if BR goes down that route I won't complain because it is a tight call. But there is no need to run down Papy to justify it, we surely need both of them, if we are to sustain our challenge.

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10 minutes ago, Vardinio'sCat said:

 

I think you are way off the mark on Mendy's fitness, his size means he is more mobile than most, and he vary rarely goes missing because he knows his job. Both he and Youri faded a bit versus Wolves 2nd half, but it was the end of a busy run, the side as a whole were under pressure, and the pair of them were still disciplined til the end. I was half expecting Hamza to come on for the extra legs, but we know what happened last time that was tried.

 

Our ability to play out and retain possession is significantly better with Papy. You do lose of Wilf's world-class tackling ability of course, but Papy is clever with his positioning and anticipation, so it isn't quite as clear cut as the statistics suggest.

 

Overall, Wilf going straight back in (when fully fit) is a reasonable position to take, he is a monster of a player, and if BR goes down that route I won't complain because it is a tight call. But there is no need to run down Papy to justify it, we surely need both of them, if we are to sustain our challenge.

Regarding Mendys fitness, Burnley he was poor 2nd half, West Ham he looked out his depth vs a strong and powerful Rice and Soycek. Villa Barkley and Grealish ran him ragged too. BR was right to change it, and it initially stemmed Villa until Hamza had A brain fart, which was to do with positioning rather than physicality(I agree Mendy positioning is much better than Hamza).

He looked the same vs Leeds 2nd half and I actually called it vs Wolves that it’ll happen again. It’s something that we’re getting away with but in games we go behind, we will struggle. Time will tell how we cope when we go behind next.

 

I’m not ‘running down’ Mendy. He’s done a fairly decent job but If we want to fight for trophies and top 4+ Ndidi will be the level we need to be at.

Mendy will be a valuable squad player and can come on for cover etc but for a first team spot , it’s not a tight call imo, Wilf is one of the first names on the team sheet when fully fit.

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1 minute ago, deanolegend1989 said:

Regarding Mendys fitness, Burnley he was poor 2nd half, West Ham he looked out his depth vs a strong and powerful Rice and Soycek. Villa Barkley and Grealish ran him ragged too. BR was right to change it, and it initially stemmed Villa until Hamza had A brain fart, which was to do with positioning rather than physicality(I agree Mendy positioning is much better than Hamza).

He looked the same vs Leeds 2nd half and I actually called it vs Wolves that it’ll happen again. It’s something that we’re getting away with but in games we go behind, we will struggle. Time will tell how we cope when we go behind next.

 

I’m not ‘running down’ Mendy. He’s done a fairly decent job but If we want to fight for trophies and top 4+ Ndidi will be the level we need to be at.

Mendy will be a valuable squad player and can come on for cover etc but for a first team spot , it’s not a tight call imo, Wilf is one of the first names on the team sheet when fully fit.

With the greatest respect (because you're honest, passionate and clearly have your heart very much in the right place) it feels to me like you're looking for evidence of Mendy being unfit to support your position, rather than seeing what most others are seeing, which is that he's way outperforming what anyone might have reasonably expected in all aspects. The 2 games you cite where he looked out of his depth/got ran ragged, that might have had something to do with the whole team not being at it, and exposing him to an impossible degree. He cannot be held to blame for others' errors. I always used to hate it when people just didn't see errors by Maguire (and further back, Walsh) because they were favourites, and the same goes for Tielemans (who I love, by the way), who does have poor games sometimes and can really out everyone under pressure by misplacing passes from time to time.

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3 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

With the greatest respect (because you're honest, passionate and clearly have your heart very much in the right place) it feels to me like you're looking for evidence of Mendy being unfit to support your position, rather than seeing what most others are seeing, which is that he's way outperforming what anyone might have reasonably expected in all aspects. The 2 games you cite where he looked out of his depth/got ran ragged, that might have had something to do with the whole team not being at it, and exposing him to an impossible degree. He cannot be held to blame for others' errors. I always used to hate it when people just didn't see errors by Maguire (and further back, Walsh) because they were favourites, and the same goes for Tielemans (who I love, by the way), who does have poor games sometimes and can really out everyone under pressure by misplacing passes from time to time.

I think it’s not just those games vs West Ham and Villa though, it’s just those the one that got noticed more because we lost and got outplayed. When we’ve got ahead we are good at being horrible to break down and he’s part of that, which I’ve given him credit for.

However, I think when we are behind, we will struggle hard to win games from behind because teams will sit deeper and we’d need more from our middle to control and he isn’t fit enough and fades badly 2nd half’s, not just the games we’ve lost.

I respect people’s opinions if you/they prefer Mendy over Ndidi when back fit, but for me Wilf walks straight back in.

Thats no disrespect to Papis, he’s done a fair job but more to the level I believe Wilf could get us too.
Mendy has been a decent cover for us and has saved us millions in stepping in to save us getting someone in, however Ndidi is a level above him and could arguably walk into nearly every team in the premier league.


Tielemens can be poor and looked to be struggling vs Wolves 2nd half as well as Mendy but he is a unique talent. He is a match winner and always will be.

I agree with you about Maguire though, he was big physical and everything you’d want in a CB from the outside view. Looking more into it though you see what he really is - a decent cb whose strong but has so many limitations, slow and out of position a lot. Forfana is streets ahead of him already and has a much higher ceiling.

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14 minutes ago, deanolegend1989 said:

Regarding Mendys fitness, Burnley he was poor 2nd half, West Ham he looked out his depth vs a strong and powerful Rice and Soycek. Villa Barkley and Grealish ran him ragged too. BR was right to change it, and it initially stemmed Villa until Hamza had A brain fart, which was to do with positioning rather than physicality(I agree Mendy positioning is much better than Hamza).

He looked the same vs Leeds 2nd half and I actually called it vs Wolves that it’ll happen again. It’s something that we’re getting away with but in games we go behind, we will struggle. Time will tell how we cope when we go behind next.

 

I’m not ‘running down’ Mendy. He’s done a fairly decent job but If we want to fight for trophies and top 4+ Ndidi will be the level we need to be at.

Mendy will be a valuable squad player and can come on for cover etc but for a first team spot , it’s not a tight call imo, Wilf is one of the first names on the team sheet when fully fit.

 

Perhaps 'running down' was a bit unfair, I should of said 'not a big fan of' or some such. Papy has certainly played himself into fitness, like many of them this season.

 

We all look at different things when watching footy. Instead of admiring his strength, close control, anticipation, positioning, his (nearly) bullet-proof short game and understanding with his team mates, I'll pay extra attention to his work-rate towards the end of the game. I honestly haven't picked up him going missing or not tracking back, but I will look for it against Liverpool

 

I do think players go in and out of fashion every 5 minutes on FT, and pushing back at the yo-yo analysis on here is part of the fun. :cheers:

 

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