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1 hour ago, honeybradger said:

We dont really have a balanced attack though, all the action comes through barnes on the left at the moment. If under isnt the answer then fair enough but we badly need a right sided attacker who can provide regular goals and assists as well as the stability you talk about. If one of barnes, vardy, maddison, ricardo, castagne gets injured then albrighton/perez are also rendered useless as we dont have enough going forwards to break teams down.

We do have a balanced attack.

 

Barnes and Vardy are the pace and threat, Maddison the creator, and Tielemans and Albrighton/Perez keep our passing game ticking and offer defensive cover.
 

That is a balanced attack in my eyes. 

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Rodgers goes a few games without using him, then he is thrown on as a sub to "make things happen"

 

Its easy to see why he tends to do so much on his own and he wont learn otherwise if he is only playing 20 minutes here and there.

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1 hour ago, pmcla26 said:

We do have a balanced attack.

 

Barnes and Vardy are the pace and threat, Maddison the creator, and Tielemans and Albrighton/Perez keep our passing game ticking and offer defensive cover.
 

That is a balanced attack in my eyes. 

To me our attack is incoherent, i just dont see any chemistry between our front 3 options, barnes likes to run at defenders, vardy likes to run behind defenders, by the time barnes decides to pass the ball the option to vardy has gone most of the time. Perez passes to vardy once in a blue moon and i dont think ive ever seen him and barnes linking up, albrighton and vardy are the only two of our front 3 options with a semblance of chemistry for me as albrighton likes to get his head up and find vardy as soon as he gets the ball, against a low block it ends up being albrighton crossing to vardy against 4 defenders which doesnt really work. Tielemans needs runners ahead of him, and not just vardy, the assist for maddison against southampton, the ball over the top to Under against arsenal, this is what he excels at, Perez and albrighton dont offer this kind of movement which completely stunts Tieleman's creativity in my opinion. Maddison as well needs movement in front of him to play well, only barnes and vardy offer this to him, i think we would see maddison perform much better if he had another option in front of him.

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21 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

‘Only Barnes and Vardy offer this to him’ (in reference to options Maddison has in front of him)

 

We can’t have all of our attackers as flair players or runners in behind. Furthermore, we can’t really play with more than 2 players ahead of Maddison, otherwise you’ll be putting Maddison in holding midfield. The way we set up currently is the way that it should be, Barnes and Vardy offering the threat in behind. Look at Liverpool, two runners in behind in Mane and Sale, same at Man City with their two wide men and United with Rashford and one of Martial and Cavani (rarely been effective as a trio so far). 
 

I don’t really understand what people expect our attack to be. We can’t carry flair players or wingers in the hope that they produce one moment of magic when football is about the whole 90 minutes. It’s like everyone just wants us to be tactically imbalanced and offensively top heavy.
 

The fact of the matter is you need players like Albrighton, Perez, Praet who keep it nice and tidy to allow players like Barnes, Vardy and Maddison to flourish. I’d argue that you’d suppress the talents of the other 3 by starting a player like Under on the right who doesn’t compliment them in the same way that Perez and Albrighton do.

 

I do wonder sometimes if a lot of people on this forum understand the basics of football or whether it’s just simply all about flair and attacking (not necessarily talking about yourself, but see this same argument going around in circles and people just seem to think Rodgers is being conservative) 

 

Look at Man City’s team in the early 10s. They still had Milner playing on the wing despite all their attacking talent. Why? Because you need players like that to help fix it all together. We laugh at West Ham and Everton for trying to put together a team of wingers/flair players in the past and yet we can’t see the fundamental aspects of why it doesn’t work. 
 

Attacking play isn’t just about skills and goals, it’s about pressing, keeping the shape from the front and retaining possession to carve out a guilt edge opportunity. Okay, we could be better, but I think we need to temper expectations - we don’t have £50m to go out and buy a world class striker or a winger who we can afford to carry at the expense of others doing the dirty work - I can almost guarantee you had Under started most games on the right this season that Barnes wouldn’t be getting the numbers he has this season. Why? Because otherwise he’s gonna have to start looking over his shoulder a bit more because there’s no balance. 

Exactly. Albrighton has never been as popular here as he should be, the simple reason is that people can’t understand his role. 
 

“If you are not flair you are not a good winger”
 

I had a spat with people complaining about him being a squad player in the summer. There are very few wide players that are as good going backwards as they are forwards. 
 

I have a mate who’s a big spurs fan and he said that Arron Lennon was exactly the same. Unreal at defending and added so much to the team but never appreciated because he wasn’t contributing enough attacking returns. But he allowed vandevaart and co to really flourish.
 

 

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I think he's at least worth a full game with Ricardo behind him before we can fully judge. Twenty minutes here and there, desperate to impress with a makeshift or debutant full back behind him is hardly a recipe for him to shine. Players that are prepared to take the opposition on aren't always successful every time yet we moan when no one even tries? If he, given the opportunity, could form a relationship on that right hand side with Ricardo they could be devastating. You could hardly describe the relationship between Ricardo and Perez as devastating or remotely successful and that's been afforded far too many chances, so what precisely have we got to lose? Agreed, if it's a more defensive approach to a game that is required then Albrighton is probably your man.

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3 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

I think he's at least worth a full game with Ricardo behind him before we can fully judge. Twenty minutes here and there, desperate to impress with a makeshift or debutant full back behind him is hardly a recipe for him to shine. Players that are prepared to take the opposition on aren't always successful every time yet we moan when no one even tries? If he, given the opportunity, could form a relationship on that right hand side with Ricardo they could be devastating. You could hardly describe the relationship between Ricardo and Perez as devastating or remotely successful and that's been afforded far too many chances, so what precisely have we got to lose? Agreed, if it's a more defensive approach to a game that is required then Albrighton is probably your man.

The relationship between Perez, Ricardo and Tielemans on that right hand side in Autumn 19 saw some of the best football We’ve seen down that flank for the club.  
 

But ya know, keep pushing the Perez is shit narrative for the sake of the Turkish Demarai Gray. 

Edited by pmcla26
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3 hours ago, UniFox21 said:

He's clearly an incredibly talented player. It's his decision making, few times in last few games he's gone for the spectacular or tried to force something that wasn't there. 

...the question is why does he go there, why does he feel that those decisions are the right ones, in those circumstances!!!

We need to know where he is coming from, in order to see if his thought processes can be altered, so he sees situations differently.

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57 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

‘Only Barnes and Vardy offer this to him’ (in reference to options Maddison has in front of him)

 

We can’t have all of our attackers as flair players or runners in behind. Furthermore, we can’t really play with more than 2 players ahead of Maddison, otherwise you’ll be putting Maddison in holding midfield. The way we set up currently is the way that it should be, Barnes and Vardy offering the threat in behind. Look at Liverpool, two runners in behind in Mane and Sale, same at Man City with their two wide men and United with Rashford and one of Martial and Cavani (rarely been effective as a trio so far). 
 

I don’t really understand what people expect our attack to be. We can’t carry flair players or wingers in the hope that they produce one moment of magic when football is about the whole 90 minutes. It’s like everyone just wants us to be tactically imbalanced and offensively top heavy.
 

The fact of the matter is you need players like Albrighton, Perez, Praet who keep it nice and tidy to allow players like Barnes, Vardy and Maddison to flourish. I’d argue that you’d suppress the talents of the other 3 by starting a player like Under on the right who doesn’t compliment them in the same way that Perez and Albrighton do.

 

I do wonder sometimes if a lot of people on this forum understand the basics of football or whether it’s just simply all about flair and attacking (not necessarily talking about yourself, but see this same argument going around in circles and people just seem to think Rodgers is being conservative) 

 

Look at Man City’s team in the early 10s. They still had Milner playing on the wing despite all their attacking talent. Why? Because you need players like that to help fix it all together. We laugh at West Ham and Everton for trying to put together a team of wingers/flair players in the past and yet we can’t see the fundamental aspects of why it doesn’t work. 
 

Attacking play isn’t just about skills and goals, it’s about pressing, keeping the shape from the front and retaining possession to carve out a guilt edge opportunity. Okay, we could be better, but I think we need to temper expectations - we don’t have £50m to go out and buy a world class striker or a winger who we can afford to carry at the expense of others doing the dirty work - I can almost guarantee you had Under started most games on the right this season that Barnes wouldn’t be getting the numbers he has this season. Why? Because otherwise he’s gonna have to start looking over his shoulder a bit more because there’s no balance. 

Off the ball movement doesnt take away from the defensive side of the game and it's definitely not 'flair' it's just a standard part of elite football. I respect your opinion that under doesnt add enough to the stability of the team at the front of the pitch and i kind of agree, but our attacking options are still incredibly unbalanced for me, with or without under. Barnes hasnt assisted vardy this season and perez has only had that semi-assist for vardy against man united in 3000 minutes, there is a serious lack of proper chemistry in our attacking options, as a team we burn bright when certain players hit a run of form like maddison and barnes at the moment and like vardy last year, but we are incapable of consistently turning up and scoring as a team because our forwards dont combine well together. So many times we've looked clueless going forwards this season when those moments of brilliance dont come and it was the same last season. The only way we can become a consistent side is by improving the teamplay and the easiest way of doing that is by buying a rw who links up well with others and who has good off the ball movement.

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5 hours ago, pmcla26 said:

Well not sure how you’ve seen something that Under hasn’t done for us but hey ho.

 

I’ll let you correct me when he does run past 3 players and smash it top corner. 

There are posters on here who have highlighted particular contributions he's made, since it's not just in my imagination.  The problem is that he's not had enough pitch-time for there to be sufficient stats to make an informed judgement, so any opinion on here is really down to gut feeling, and that's a personal thing.  I guess that explains why opinion is so divided.

 

So we agree to disagree.  I hope we will both be happy when he does glide Mahrez-like past 3 players and smash it into the top corner :) :scarf:

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21 hours ago, harpendenfox said:

He is, arguably, a modern day Steve Earle. The footballer, not the singer/songwriter. Who is 75 now. Dear Lord.

 

if you are actually the Steve Earle, I thought you were great. As was Jim Melrose.

 

 

Well @Harpenden Fox, I could be the real Steve Earle if you wanted me to?☺️
 

I’ve spent some time on Planet Melrose and I have to say it’s a strange but not unpleasant place. Jim ‘almost’ bought the club in the MON era, in the same sense that I ‘almost’ had a deep and meaningful relationship with Christina Hendricks.

 

He’s a nice guy, and harmless. Bit like me really...

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2 hours ago, pmcla26 said:

The relationship between Perez, Ricardo and Tielemans on that right hand side in Autumn 19 saw some of the best football We’ve seen down that flank for the club.  
 

But ya know, keep pushing the Perez is shit narrative for the sake of the Turkish Demarai Gray. 

I fail to see how you've managed to lump or squeeze Perez into that equation. Even his most avid supporters appear to be of the opinion that he's better behind the main striker. If you think he does a brilliant job out on the right that's absolutely fine and whilst I disagree, that's what it's about opinions, not right and wrong.

 

As for the Turkish Demarai Gray comment, I think that's a little unfortunate because for the reasons Rodgers himself has outlined ie fitness issues after injury when he first arrived, settling in, furthrr injury and adapting to the sort of defensive role the manager would like to see, he hasn’t had nearly the same opportunity that Gray had. My submission would remain that Perez is not a winger, has little to contribute in that specific role, whereas this lad is a winger and  it surely would be prudent to give him a decent and fair opportunity before any final decisions are made.

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3 hours ago, honeybradger said:

Off the ball movement doesnt take away from the defensive side of the game and it's definitely not 'flair' it's just a standard part of elite football. I respect your opinion that under doesnt add enough to the stability of the team at the front of the pitch and i kind of agree, but our attacking options are still incredibly unbalanced for me, with or without under. Barnes hasnt assisted vardy this season and perez has only had that semi-assist for vardy against man united in 3000 minutes, there is a serious lack of proper chemistry in our attacking options, as a team we burn bright when certain players hit a run of form like maddison and barnes at the moment and like vardy last year, but we are incapable of consistently turning up and scoring as a team because our forwards dont combine well together. So many times we've looked clueless going forwards this season when those moments of brilliance dont come and it was the same last season. The only way we can become a consistent side is by improving the teamplay and the easiest way of doing that is by buying a rw who links up well with others and who has good off the ball movement.

...If it is not Ünder, we definitely need a Right Forward/Winger!!!

Your absolutely spot on regarding the individual performances of Barnes and Maddison, but we need to have a high level of excellence and have it consistently. Another Barnes like player on the right gives us a lot more.

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