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tickler28

No plan B or a way of breaking teams down

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I thought our left side was bad enough with chillwells positions and having the ball broken down in that side.

 

Going to a back 3 is a mistake without the right players. Cags at the left of a back 3 never works, when will BR learn? Anartey was too soon to drop into a back 3 after injury. JJ out on the left was a mistake and Castagne and JJ should've switched flanks. 

 

For the back 3 to work it should be Evans on the left, Cags in the middle and Fofana on the right with Castagna on the left, Pereira on the right with JJ on the bench. Back 4 Pereira/Evans/Cags/Castagne.

 

 

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Let just brush over the we had 3 midfield players out 2 that are would almost automatic starters in Maddison and Ndidi, plus one of our standout players of the season so far in Praet. 

 

Whilst we are also without Riccardo probably one of our top 3 players, so 4 genuine first team starters.

 

Combine with Jonny Evans no pre-season, and had only 60 minutes under he's belt. 

 

As the league has shown this is the season for freak results. 

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After seeing some of the other results yesterday and thinking how badly the likes of Man City and United have performed this season, I'm not overly fussed. Also - West Ham have seen an upturn in fortunes since Moyes got covid and Pearce took over. That's Forest legend Stuart Pearce, who would have no doubt wanted to show some of his credentials while the boss was away and stick it to us.  

It's one of those things. The performance was cack but nowhere near as bad as Bournemouth last season - which will be my barometer for naffness under Rogers. If I have to trade a 3-0 loss to West Ham with injured players for the 5-2 or even a couple of 1-0 wins on the trot, so be it. 

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9 hours ago, shen said:

Oh for goodness' sake stop these overreactions and hyperboles. Rodgers is not a 'clueless moron' - why would you even say that? Was he a clueless moron last week too then?

 

You make it sound like the players are robots and that Rodgers is controlling them. It's ridiculous to suggest the players aren't responsible for the performance - they're the ones affecting the game directly.  

 

Rodgers cannot go out on the pitch and make sure the players don't make poor passes or needlessly give the ball away.

 

Yes there was a tactical element to the game today, but on another day, we would've exploited the space in behind and had a lucky break here or there. It just didn't happen today, but that doesn't mean the team or manager are suddenly useless. 

Rodgers makes it clear in his tactics that he insists on patient build up and not long balls.....long balls (even if most are useless) would still have done more than what we did yesterday. A target man up top to hit would still have done more than what we continued to do yesterday.

 

Nobody can say that watching that match we weren't just trying the same things and failing over and over again...it's the managers job to instruct a different approach and Rodgers refuses to do that.

 

 

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I'm very much in the camp that yesterday was a result of key creative players out and expect to kick on after the (completely unnecessary and pointless) international break. HOWEVER since the end of last season we clearly have a manager that finds it hard to adapt his tactics to accommodate key players missing, as that was a big reason for the drop off then as well. It's fine to blame results on having missing players because that's just the reality of it, but Brendan ALSO knows we have those players missing. So even if we go out for a nil-nil draw and a point what tactics have we shown that adapts to the known reality? And that also goes for us, right? Are those that moan about no plan B willing to accept the team going out against West Ham and playing negative football to get that point?  

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1 hour ago, Babylon said:

Just wondering what your thoughts are on Pep and Klopp, I can only presume they also are "clueless morons" after after the last couple of weeks. 

Pep has won multiple trophies. A few bad weeks doesn’t change this.

klopp has won multiple trophies. One hammering doesn’t change this.

Brendan Rodgers has failed at Liverpool. He had SAS covering is flaws and he never sorted the defence all season and eventually it caught him out. He bottled it when it mattered, he set up negatively against Chelsea and then threw it away at Palace.

He then failed to kick on after losing Suarez and had a pathetic season including getting hammered vs Stoke. Next season he continued to fail and eventually got the boot and Klopp has rebuilt his mess that he should of done if he were a TOP manager.

He then bottled a 14 point lead here to throw away our best chance of CL football ever when it would be easier not to lose it!

Time after time he’s been shown up by poor tactics that any man in the pub can see wouldn’t work.

Last season, we are winning 7 in a row in cruise control then decides to change it vs Villa, despite winning we never recovered because the momentum and the players lost the rhythm.
His tactics vs Brighton at home were borderline mental, he decides to change formation and tactics vs Bournemouth when we ran them absolutely ragged first half and he changes the game when it wasn’t needed to, yet yesterday when it was clear it wasn’t working, decides to not change it and wait for an injury to Armarty before doing anything because he’s so stubborn to admit he set up wrongly(the fact he didn’t know at the start that playing so defensive vs A team who is going to pump long balls at you was even more naive and stupid than I thought he was).

 

Comparing him to them 2 Is pretty embarrassing really. They are legends, he is an average coach. We’re little Leicester so we should be so grateful but he will NEVER be a top coach at a ‘big’ club because he has too many flaws.

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1 hour ago, tickler28 said:

Rodgers makes it clear in his tactics that he insists on patient build up and not long balls.....long balls (even if most are useless) would still have done more than what we did yesterday. A target man up top to hit would still have done more than what we continued to do yesterday.

 

Nobody can say that watching that match we weren't just trying the same things and failing over and over again...it's the managers job to instruct a different approach and Rodgers refuses to do that.

 

 

Well let's agree to disagree. I do not think we needed a 'target man up top'. We needed to play quicker (failed to create overload situations) and better balls (composure and technique was lacking) into the channel and to make the right decisions in the box. 

We got through on numerous occasions first half, but the final cross/pull back was lacking or we neglected to shoot when the opportunity was there.

 

Antonio and Kane are the closest thing to 'target men' I can think of with the required quality for the PL, so they are obviously a rare breed. Players like Wood or Mitrovic (or Slimani) are just not good enough on the ball to be worthwhile.

Besides, it's not like any other top sides play with target men or resort to those tactics as a 'plan B'

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We let a goal in early which played into their hands massively then got bullied for about 80 mins coupled with the fact a few of our players weren't at the races and that is what happens. I mean it could be worse guys you could have just bought a CB for 80 million only to find out he's a fraud XD

Edited by LCFOX92
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The plan B myth!  I blame the media filling peoples heads with a mythical plan B, ex players just chuck that one in the mix with the cliché "where is the pashun".  Rodgers to his credit does mix things up, but he sticks to his principals, which means we don't lump it up to the big man i.e. Slimani.  After a horrible loss, we all have to find solutions or reason as to why it happened, but sometimes it comes down to 7 or 8 of your players having a crap game, if 3 or 4 are having an off day, sometimes others can carry the can for them.  

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On 05/10/2020 at 00:38, shen said:

Oh for goodness' sake stop these overreactions and hyperboles. Rodgers is not a 'clueless moron' - why would you even say that? Was he a clueless moron last week too then?

 

You make it sound like the players are robots and that Rodgers is controlling them. It's ridiculous to suggest the players aren't responsible for the performance - they're the ones affecting the game directly.  

 

Rodgers cannot go out on the pitch and make sure the players don't make poor passes or needlessly give the ball away.

 

Yes there was a tactical element to the game today, but on another day, we would've exploited the space in behind and had a lucky break here or there. It just didn't happen today, but that doesn't mean the team or manager are suddenly useless. 

No more words needed..just..:appl:

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10 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

This idea that Rodgers “failed” at Liverpool really annoys me. The Liverpool he took over were barely top 6. You say he didn’t “sort the defence” as if it was a quick fix. Klopp had to sell Coutinho (a Rodgers player) and sign both Allison and Van Dijk to finally solidify their defence. It took him a couple of seasons to do that and had very little to do with “genius”. Rodgers took a top 6/top 8 side to the brink of the title playing some of the most exhilarating football that year. His competitors splashed significantly more in signings and had financial power to go out and improve their squad with a better standard of player then he could. 
 

The following season, he lost Suarez and the most the club spent to replace him was £16m on Balloteli - a risk but one who doesn’t really fit the style. Chelsea spent a large sum on Costa if I remember rightly. Liverpool also signed Sakho - probably one of the most sought after defenders at the time behind Varane. He flopped for whatever reason. Lovren was also seen as a bit of a coup but again failed to live up to expectation. 
 

Compare that to Klopp who has far more financial muscle due predominantly to Coutinho sale and more significantly the restructuring of Liverpool’s recruitment policy. Edwards, the DOF now works with the manager in comparison to the transfer committee they previously had. It all plays a part. 
 

I’m not saying Rodgers is the messiah and I also criticise some of his decisions (like every fan, I’ve criticised every manager we’ve had at some point). However, every time we lose he gets the “clueless” tag when it really isn’t warranted. Yes, we’ve shown flaws under his management but we’ve also had some incredible results. We’ve gone from 9th dreaming of finishing 7th to 5th expecting top 6 to be a standard season. 
 

You also don’t want to compare Pep and Klopp to Rodgers. Ok, how about Nuno ? His Wolves side lost 4-0 to West Ham - does that make him clueless too ?
 

In terms of Rodgers, he did well at Watford, very well at Swansea and well at Liverpool given the circumstances. His only flop came at Reading, not Liverpool. You’ve got to look at all things surrounding the club at that given time before calling the manager out.

I reckon you was a spitfire-pilot, in your previous life...tally-ho & get among them....:appl:  @shen  as your wingman..

Edited by fuchsntf
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An example of a conversation trapped in time.

 

Person A - "Rodgers has played the following systems with Leicester 4-1-4-1, 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1, 3-4-3, 3-2-4-1, 4-4 fuc***g 2"

Person B - "Yes, but he's not got Plan B"

Person A - "What would you suggest?"

Person B - "Bring on a tall striker to pump it up too"

 

 

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Edited by Danny Clender
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Look this is FT people. Panic and talk bollocks is what we do. Enough of the common sense rubbish. 
 

we lost 0-3 to West Ham so now relegation is nailed on. We’ll be in the bottom three with Liverpool and Man Utd. It’s all over. So long and thanks for all the fish. 

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Plan A is fast quick passing football, obviously plan B needs to be different but our Plan B seems to be bring a striker on who's pretty crap at scoring goals. Either that needs remedying or Brendan needs to put his arm round Slimani and get him doing what we bought him for in the first place i.e. getting his head on the end of crosses from the wings or knocking the long ball down to a quick striker. 

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