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"Project Big Picture"

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1 hour ago, Fox92 said:

Currently yeah, historically no. Which is more to my point. Why do Spurs deserve to have a say over the likes of Newcastle/Everton/Villa - teams who have won more top flight titles? People can say "oh they last won something years ago" but so did Spurs. Last time Spurs were league champions was the 60's had just started. Why should they be able to tell other clubs, yes inlcuding us, what to do? I mean, we've won the league more recently than them.

 

I'm not even one of these people that think's we are a big club now and I certainly acknowledge the history of Liverpool/Man Utd and, at a push Arsenal, but Spurs? Not for me. New ground and a couple of decent seasons and they're now clased as an elite club? If the PL want to give more rights to certain clubs then they should consider now and history. They have a big fan base, and have one of the best away followings in the league, but so do West Ham and Leeds.

 

Alternatively 'a new 62,000 seater stadium, 11 top 6 finishes on the trot and ranked as fourth biggest UK club in the Deloitte money league'

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

The government can't bail absolutely everyone out from the hospitality sector, entertainment, aviation, arts, musicians and then even privately run football clubs. Eventually it all has to take it's toll and be paid for, a day of reckoning and this could go on for another couple of years yet with people fighting to merely survive to stay well and even put food on the table. What money and support there is may have to be eeked out a lot longer yet.

 

 

The Government made a big thing in the summer about the Premier League returning to lift the spirits of the nation (whether you agree or not) and the Football League returned with the expectation that crowds in some form would be back in early October. That hasn't happened. The Government then say it is up to the Premier League to support them whilst simultaneously restricting their trade by not allowing spectators at all, all the while saying how pivotal the clubs are to their communities and how important the pyramid is.

 

Simon Jordan speaks very well on this and believes a loan with low interest and conditions that can be repaid in time whilst the game gets itself in order.

 

It is ridiculous, too, that the only seemingly viable source of money for the EFL is this ludicrous plan. Parry has also done very well in suppressing the news that two more clubs will exit League Two into non-league if this ever happened. The 92 would be reduced deliberately rather than clubs going to the wall anyway.

 

Pathetic all round for me.

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8 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

The Premier League clubs have kicked Project Big Picture into the long grass and agreed instead to hold an urgent strategy review involving all 20 members, as well as making a new bail-out offer to the EFL.

An emergency meeting of the 20 clubs called after last weekend’s announcement of the Project’s aims to revolutionise English football — put forward by Liverpool and Manchester United and backed by the EFL chairman Rick Parry — has effectively killed off the plan at birth.

It would have handed all voting powers to the top teams in the Premier League and hugely increased their financial income but ran up against opposition from a large majority of the top-flight clubs.

It is understood that the meeting instead decided to commission a strategy review that would involve all 20 clubs rather than just the elite to plan for the future, with the understanding that it would take place promptly.

There was also an agreement to put together a rescue package for the EFL, with the offer including an option for the bail-out funding only to go to the League One and League Two clubs. That, however, could still be vetoed by the Championship clubs. As reported by The Times last week, the EFL had rejected an offer of a grant of less than £50 million and a £100 million loan — all with conditions attached.

It had been expected that there would be some fiery exchanges aimed at the Liverpool and Manchester United representatives but according to one club executive in the meeting it was “civilised”. However, there was irritation about the role of Parry in Project Big Picture, with some clubs suggesting he had attempted to destabilise the Premier League.

The project had won some EFL clubs’ support by promising 25 per cent of Premier League TV revenue with the three lower divisions. At least 14 of the 20 top-flight clubs were opposed, however, possibly some of the ‘big six’ clubs too, according to Premier League insiders.

The fans’ trusts of the big six clubs had also united to object to the Project’s plans, stating they were “totally opposed to concentrating power in the hands of six billionaire owners and departing from the one club, one vote and collective ethos of the Premier League”.

The FA chairman Greg Clarke had also spoken out, warning Liverpool and Manchester United that the governing body would use its special powers to prevent a breakaway league and stop them playing in the Champions League.

Clarke said the FA would use its “special share” in the Premier League to protect “the best interests of the game” and pointed out the FA nominates which leagues and clubs qualify for European competition. He confirmed that the threat of a breakaway league — understood to have been suggested for the big six Premier League clubs to join the EFL — had been raised in discussions between the two clubs and Parry.

Project Big Picture has been driven by Liverpool’s owner John Henry and president Mike Gordon, along with Manchester United’s co-owner Joel Glazer, but none of the trio faced the music at the Premier League meeting, which was held by video conference. Instead, Liverpool’s chairman Tom Werner and chief executive Billy Hogan took part, along with United’s executive vice-chairman Ed Woodward.

Clarke confirmed yesterday in a statement that he had taken part in early talks with the group around fixture congestion, with the knowledge of senior FA board members and the chief executive.

He said: “However, in late spring, when the principal aim of these discussions became the concentration of power and wealth in the hands of a few clubs with a breakaway league mooted as a threat, I of course, discontinued my involvement and counselled a more consensus-based approach involving all Premier League clubs and its chair and CEO. Our game needs to continually seek to improve but benefits need to be shared.

“We, the FA Board and Council, have to ensure that any changes would be to the long-term benefit of the whole of football and we have substantial controls to help ensure that the best interests of the game are served by any new proposals.

“In addition, to the Special Share in the Premier League, which prevents certain changes being made to the constitution without the FA’s consent, it is also the FA’s responsibility to sanction competitions in England — including any proposed new competition — as well as being responsible for licensing clubs, through Uefa, to play in Europe. Additionally, Uefa look to us to nominate the league, and therefore the clubs, that will play in their competitions.”

In a thinly veiled warning against Liverpool, United and Parry, Clarke added: “Let’s continue to work together to determine what is best for English football, with full dialogue between all key stakeholders. However, there is more to our game than economics. Change must benefit clubs, fans and players; not just selective balance sheets. In these difficult times unity, transparency and common purpose must override the interests of the few.”

The Times has seen the full project proposals and the documents outline the incredible extent of the power and money that would be given to the top sides.

Premier League clubs would be allowed to show Saturday 3pm matches to British viewers on their own TV channels and digital platforms if the broadcast blackout is lifted permanently, in what would be another significant money-making opportunity for the big clubs.

The big six clubs would not only dominate the voting rights in the Premier League — their powers would also extend to setting a salary cap in the Championship and wielding a veto over the fixture calendar in the second tier of English football.

 

That first line covers the important parts of it.

 

They probably want to pick 5-6 with only 1-2 of the 'big six' to thrash this out. The non-'big 6' should be able to find a few that they all agree will represent them. Probably not Ashley, Gold or Sullivan though!

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1 hour ago, turtmcfly said:

 

Alternatively 'a new 62,000 seater stadium, 11 top 6 finishes on the trot and ranked as fourth biggest UK club in the Deloitte money league'

 

 

 

We all know finishing top 6 goes in the trophy cabinet :rolleyes:

 

I stand by what I said. They are "decent" seasons. But if Spurs are this so called massive club then finishing top 6 is the absolute minimum.

Edited by Fox92
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21 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

 

The Times has seen the full project proposals and the documents outline the incredible extent of the power and money that would be given to the top sides.

Premier League clubs would be allowed to show Saturday 3pm matches to British viewers on their own TV channels and digital platforms if the broadcast blackout is lifted permanently, in what would be another significant money-making opportunity for the big clubs.

The big six clubs would not only dominate the voting rights in the Premier League — their powers would also extend to setting a salary cap in the Championship and wielding a veto over the fixture calendar in the second tier of English football.

That's nice of them. 

 

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44 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

We all know finishing top 6 goes in the trophy cabinet :rolleyes:

 

I stand by what I said. They are "decent" seasons. But if Spurs are this so called massive club then finishing top 6 is the absolute minimum.

 

What do we all know about someone saying they've had 'a couple of decent seasons ' when it's eleven on the trot, or saying they have 'a new stadium' without mentioning it's now the second biggest in the league. Someone who also glosses over their financial standing, because to do otherwise would make his claims look a bit silly.

 

If I point out that the fourth place in Deloitte's UK list I already mentioned translates to them having the 8th highest revenue of any club in the world, will 'massive' get upgraded again to 'not Barcelona'?

 

 

 

 

Edited by turtmcfly
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I'm glad the PL has put some brakes on this.  But make no mistake, these billionaires have organized and are settled in to wage a long war.  The only way to win against them will be to organize the countervailing interests ... i.e. money and political leverage ... otherwise a million of us blathering on social media is piss into the wind.

 

I sent this letter to the Guardian.  I'm sure they'll publish it  :rolleyes: 

 

 

Has “Project Big Picture” gobsmacked you, my fellow fans?  Alas, it simply reflects the kleptocratic ways of today’s world, including our favorite bit called “football”.  These are pages from a well-thumbed playbook:

 

- legal and financial infrastructure laid to capture the wealth of an economic sector;

- pennies to quiet the “little” leaders (EFL club owners);

- an obsequious media.

 

A would-be tyranny has amassed enough power to show its hand.  It now declares itself, and formally lays out the new rules, its rules.  Its audacity is amazing -- not just the complete seizure of control of the four Leagues, but the impudent disregard of our values as supporters.

 

This is the final step in converting what was a sport and became an industry, into a cash machine existing to further enrich a tiny, self-selected cabal.

 

Get over your nostalgia for a perfect world of cheap tickets and open terraces.  Recognize this threat as the final, existential threat and concentrate your energies on it.

 

Become active in your supporters’ trusts, connect them and find leaders.  Greg Clarke and the FA appear ready.  This fight will require the modern apparatus of social media, fundraising, PR, lobbyists, and opportunistic politicians.  One victory won’t settle it.

 

Supporters of “big six” clubs -- this means you as well.  You no longer have the luxury of having it both ways.  Do you love and value football -- or only the success of your own club, at any price and any cost?

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10 minutes ago, KingsX said:

I'm glad the PL has put some brakes on this.  But make no mistake, these billionaires have organized and are settled in to wage a long war.  The only way to win against them will be to organize the countervailing interests ... i.e. money and political leverage ... otherwise a million of us blathering on social media is piss into the wind.

 

I sent this letter to the Guardian.  I'm sure they'll publish it  :rolleyes: 

 

 

Has “Project Big Picture” gobsmacked you, my fellow fans?  Alas, it simply reflects the kleptocratic ways of today’s world, including our favorite bit called “football”.  These are pages from a well-thumbed playbook:

 

- legal and financial infrastructure laid to capture the wealth of an economic sector;

- pennies to quiet the “little” leaders (EFL club owners);

- an obsequious media.

 

A would-be tyranny has amassed enough power to show its hand.  It now declares itself, and formally lays out the new rules, its rules.  Its audacity is amazing -- not just the complete seizure of control of the four Leagues, but the impudent disregard of our values as supporters.

 

This is the final step in converting what was a sport and became an industry, into a cash machine existing to further enrich a tiny, self-selected cabal.

 

Get over your nostalgia for a perfect world of cheap tickets and open terraces.  Recognize this threat as the final, existential threat and concentrate your energies on it.

 

Become active in your supporters’ trusts, connect them and find leaders.  Greg Clarke and the FA appear ready.  This fight will require the modern apparatus of social media, fundraising, PR, lobbyists, and opportunistic politicians.  One victory won’t settle it.

 

Supporters of “big six” clubs -- this means you as well.  You no longer have the luxury of having it both ways.  Do you love and value football -- or only the success of your own club, at any price and any cost?

How many accounts do you have Geoff? 

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54 minutes ago, turtmcfly said:

 

What do we all know about someone saying they've had 'a couple of decent seasons ' when it's eleven on the trot, or saying they have 'a new stadium' without mentioning it's now the second biggest in the league. Someone who also glosses over their financial standing, because to do otherwise would make his claims look a bit silly.

 

If I point out that the fourth place in Deloitte's UK list I already mentioned translates to them having the 8th highest revenue of any club in the world, will 'massive' get upgraded again to 'not Barcelona'?

 

 

 

 

To be fair, size of stadium means absolutely heehaw in relation to size of club, does it? 

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I admit I sometimes felt a guilty itch to check on RedCafe during the Maguire deal :blush:, but this Project Big Picture endorsed by Sanctimony FC is on a whole other level!

Reading RAWK and some of the unbelievable tripe they come out with is, I am not sure there is a word for it, some sort of obliviously sanctimoniously indignant I guess (Surely some fine Germanic fellow can provide a suitably lengthy and harsh sounding word to describe it, as I am such a fan of schadenfraude, they must have one) is both galling, baffling and pitying at the same time.

:blink:

 

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1 hour ago, turtmcfly said:

 

What do we all know about someone saying they've had 'a couple of decent seasons ' when it's eleven on the trot, or saying they have 'a new stadium' without mentioning it's now the second biggest in the league. Someone who also glosses over their financial standing, because to do otherwise would make his claims look a bit silly.

 

If I point out that the fourth place in Deloitte's UK list I already mentioned translates to them having the 8th highest revenue of any club in the world, will 'massive' get upgraded again to 'not Barcelona'?

 

 

 

 

 

They've got a lot of income, big wow. Tell me again what they've won in those 11 seasons?

 

The history books say 11 top 6 finishes, move to a new ground, CL final and ........ , most importantly, no trophies.

 

For me, a big club are definined by what they are winning now and what they have previously won. So I'm not glossing over anything because finances aren't a measure of how big a club are.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Fox92 said:

 

They've got a lot of income, big wow. Tell me again what they've won in those 11 seasons?

 

The history books say 11 top 6 finishes, move to a new ground, CL final and ........ , most importantly, no trophies.

 

For me, a big club are definined by what they are winning now and what they have previously won. So I'm not glossing over anything because finances aren't a measure of how big a club are.

 

 

Yes, but you don`t set the parameters of success, Sky do (did)

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