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20 minutes ago, daddylonglegs said:

Maddison has had 12 months of being shite at them, only fair that Youri gets more than one game?

Maddison's are nowhere near as bad as people make out. You only have to look at how we defend set-pieces to know that we simply don't attack the ball well. It's a major problem. 

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17 minutes ago, Jonaldinho said:

Maddison's are nowhere near as bad as people make out. You only have to look at how we defend set-pieces to know that we simply don't attack the ball well. It's a major problem. 

We need 7 players at the front post because that’s as far as the ball makes it..

 

will agree though that we don’t attack the ball well at all.. Even young Wes who Rodgers says jumps as high as the stadium...He isn’t that commanding at all..

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Maddison's technique is to whip them in at real pace leaves little margin for error as the ball comes in flat rather than looping in. If he gets it right it's undefendable but it's just a lot harder to get right. We could revert to more loopier balls into the box, but we don't really have the aerial presence to consistently score this way. 

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We are such a strange side when it comes to set pieces, because overall it doesn’t quite add up how we’ve not done better with them. Free kicks directly we’ve got arguably one of the best players in Madders to take them, perhaps only Ward-Prowse is better In the Prem on his day (there’s no doubt others i’m forgetting though)

 

The corners situation is weird as well because we have tried a couple of different things this season and neither seem to come off 🤷‍♂️

 

Earlier in the season we went through a phase of taking the short corner option and we couldn’t make that work, we’d end up having to go backwards as to not lose possession and get ourselves caught out on the counter - so we’ve gone back to just getting it into the box first time and that seems equally ineffective as the opposition just clear it.

 

Last nights quick short corner seemed the best as we didn’t allow Brighton to get themselves organised and we finally found a free header at the far post but it’s not something you can do all the time as the opportunity isn’t there to do so.

 

No doubt they’re working on it otherwise we wouldn’t have seen these variants.

 

id probably suggest our best chance was to drill balls in and try to win pens for handball as much as possible 😂

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9 hours ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Note that Youri took corners that were just as poor as Maddison's and even took a FK towards the end that was bad. It's not just a Maddison thing. 

Definitely not. I'm sure there was a game earlier this season when Albrighton was taking them when Maddison was absent, and he hit the first defender about 4 times!

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8 hours ago, Jonaldinho said:

Maddison's are nowhere near as bad as people make out. You only have to look at how we defend set-pieces to know that we simply don't attack the ball well. It's a major problem. 

They’re definitely not as bad as people make out, you’re right.

 

But it is a myth that he’s this dead ball specialist. I can’t remember the last time for example that he took a free kick that forced a good save out of a keeper. 

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9 hours ago, Jonaldinho said:

Maddison's are nowhere near as bad as people make out. You only have to look at how we defend set-pieces to know that we simply don't attack the ball well. It's a major problem. 

.....can't agree with you on this...!!!

They are extremely poor and for a player with his skillset it is a surprise he has failed to address the problem. I would say 80% of his corner kicks do not clear the first man, I would suspect someone would gamble that he will not get it right and make a run to the near post. That comes from coaching and seems to be an aspect of our game that appears to be overlooked.

  As for attacking the ball at both ends, I totally agree with you, but if it is not something we practise (if we do, then we need a new coach) and I can not see it improving anytime soon.

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It was nice to score a Goal from a Corner, Albeit from the second phase. I think the last time was maybe Maguire or Morgan.

The quality of the Ball from Maddison has been poor and it's up to Brendan to sort that out. Either work with Maddison on them or give the job to someone else.

 

The real reason we don't score from Corners is the the fact we don't have enough physical players who can win the Ball in the Box. The other reason is the positioning of our players is crap.

No one takes the front post and no one takes the back post. And no one takes the area outside the box where clearing headers are likely to land.

Also Cags Evans, Fofana always seem to be marking each other. Surely Brendan can work this out with them in Training. 

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3 minutes ago, Clever Fox said:

It was nice to score a Goal from a Corner, Albeit from the second phase. I think the last time was maybe Maguire or Morgan.

The quality of the Ball from Maddison has been poor and it's up to Brendan to sort that out. Either work with Maddison on them or give the job to someone else.

 

The real reason we don't score from Corners is the the fact we don't have enough physical players who can win the Ball in the Box. The other reason is the positioning of our players is crap.

No one takes the front post and no one takes the back post. And no one takes the area outside the box where clearing headers are likely to land.

Also Cags Evans, Fofana always seem to be marking each other. Surely Brendan can work this out with them in Training. 

Last one was Evans against Villa or Soyuncu against Palace I think? 

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Set pieces are a massive part of a teams armoury....  taggart/Walsh/Elliott would get 15/20 between them..

 

disagree regarding Maddison whips the ball in at pace... most this season have been very floaty

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2 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

.....can't agree with you on this...!!!

They are extremely poor and for a player with his skillset it is a surprise he has failed to address the problem. I would say 80% of his corner kicks do not clear the first man, I would suspect someone would gamble that he will not get it right and make a run to the near post. That comes from coaching and seems to be an aspect of our game that appears to be overlooked.

  As for attacking the ball at both ends, I totally agree with you, but if it is not something we practise (if we do, then we need a new coach) and I can not see it improving anytime soon.


Well I’ve just gone and checked the last 22 corners (I got bored after that) that he’s put into the box on Wyscout, and 18 of them most certainly beat the first man. So your 80% figure is correct, just the other way round.

 

Theyre nowhere near as bad as people make out. Seems a lot easier to focus on the kicker and not the rest. In fact, watching his corners back against Newcastle, they’re just begging for someone to properly attack them but alas we are just crap at both ends as noted.

 

Carragher said highlighted on MNF a while back about teams that win the league having to be strong on set pieces at both ends. Chelsea were crap at it last season so doesn’t stop you getting in the top 4 but having a substantially negative goal difference on set pieces makes things harder. That the goal at Everton counts as from a corner artificially inflated our woeful record 

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55 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:


Well I’ve just gone and checked the last 22 corners (I got bored after that) that he’s put into the box on Wyscout, and 18 of them most certainly beat the first man. So your 80% figure is correct, just the other way round.

 

Theyre nowhere near as bad as people make out. Seems a lot easier to focus on the kicker and not the rest. In fact, watching his corners back against Newcastle, they’re just begging for someone to properly attack them but alas we are just crap at both ends as noted.

 

Carragher said highlighted on MNF a while back about teams that win the league having to be strong on set pieces at both ends. Chelsea were crap at it last season so doesn’t stop you getting in the top 4 but having a substantially negative goal difference on set pieces makes things harder. That the goal at Everton counts as from a corner artificially inflated our woeful record 

....I am not going to bother going over previous games to check stats!!!

  A previous poster in another topic dismissed the validity of Wyscout in relation to football stats. I  have never used that application but I really dispute the findings of 18 out of 22 corners beat the first man.

 

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8 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

....I am not going to bother going over previous games to check stats!!!

  A previous poster in another topic dismissed the validity of Wyscout in relation to football stats. I  have never used that application but I really dispute the findings of 18 out of 22 corners beat the first man.

 

Would you though change your random assumption that maddison hits the first defender with 18 out of 22 corners? 

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On 11/02/2021 at 18:00, Les-TA-Jon said:

Note that Youri took corners that were just as poor as Maddison's and even took a FK towards the end that was bad. It's not just a Maddison thing. 

You can’t judge Youri on one corner or one freekick. Give him an extended time doing it. It is not just a Maddison thing/privilege.

Edited by Tom12345
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On 12/02/2021 at 08:32, sacreblueits442 said:

....I am not going to bother going over previous games to check stats!!!

  A previous poster in another topic dismissed the validity of Wyscout in relation to football stats. I  have never used that application but I really dispute the findings of 18 out of 22 corners beat the first man.

 

Well even if they beat first man often it means our guy need to be fairly close to the first man and quite a bit away from goal to be of any threat.

 

And it is not just about quality, we need to have some urgency at times and whip in one early and before everyone is set up. We take a long time just to take one.

 

And I don’t understand why we can’t have variety by having different players taking turns - from open play, Albrighton,

Barnes and Thomas are all great crossers of the ball and Youri and Under both look ok. It is pretty normal for teams to have at least two designated corner takers (one for each side). Why is it that with our very poor stats on this for a long time we still need to monopolise it for Maddison? Some of our other players can’t even get into the lineup even after scoring goals or playing well - not calling for him to be dropped here but just sharing corner duties. If you don’t perform, especially after a prolonged period of time, especially at this level, give it to

someone else. Perhaps it is just bias or maybe it was written into his contract?

Edited by Tom12345
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  • 2 weeks later...
4 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Genuinely worried how many we'll concede from corners and free-kicks on Wednesday... 

It doesn't help that we seem far too relaxed in giving away corners and freekicks in dangerous positions, as if that has taken away the danger.  I'm perplexed as to why the attitude doesn't appear to have been instilled into the squad that we give these away only as a last resort.

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