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3 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

In a sea of ineptitude, I thought the lad did well when he came on.

corrected it for you

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4 minutes ago, shen said:

Yes, but again, Thomas has looked mostly good to very good at left back with someone (e.g. Barnes) ahead of him. Using Fuchs as a marker for Thomas in a 3-5-2 makes little sense when Fuchs played in a 4-4-2 behind Albrighton for 95% of that season.

My issue with sending out Thomas on loan is that it poses the question of who he is replacing when he returns? Will he be limited to brief cameos and cup matches thus stunting his progression?

The main reason I'm in here tempering the criticism of Thomas is exactly because Ricardo has been a shadow of his former self. Our best current lineup is Albrighton/Castagne on the right and Thomas on the left. It's not great, but it's a damn sight better than what we saw today!

It may sound like I am criticising Thomas by I genuinely am not, I am a fan. Its just this is all happening too soon for him. He isn't ready today but he is certainly solid enough for a lower Prem club or a Play-off chasing championship club. I could see him in a season learning so much that we have no option but to keep him in the first team squad. For now though, I would prefer someone with a better all round game today like a Gosens and if we believe what we read the club is thinking the same way. If we do indeed sign someone then there is no point in keeping LT here for now which is the point I have been making all along.

 

I agree with your Barnes point. The problem is if Brendan persists with a 352, I even worry where Barnes fits in if we play Iheanacho. I really hope we do go back to a 433 formation which is where we are more effective.

 

I think Riccardo will be fine next season after some rest and a pre-season. I'm sure he will return to his best. As for Catsagne, I hope he stays away from LB!

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5 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

Realistically though JJ isn't going to be playing much football for us before 2022 if Ricardo is anything to go by, so even if we do sign Gosens, an injury to him and we are back to where we are right now without even having the option to use Thomas if he gets sent out on loan

 

I do think it is an option we could look at in January, but until we see JJ is fully back from his injury I wouldn't even entertain the idea of sending Thomas out on loan

Im not opposed to that whilst JJ is injured but if he comes back for October/November as suggested (injured mid-Feb) and do sign someone as reported, that means LT rots in the u23s. I`d rather loan him out if JJ looks like he is react well to treatment.

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1 minute ago, Analysethis said:

Im not opposed to that whilst JJ is injured but if he comes back for October/November as suggested (injured mid-Feb) and do sign someone as reported, that means LT rots in the u23s. I`d rather loan him out if JJ looks like he is react well to treatment.

Definitely wouldn't take the suggested return period for any of our players seriously haha

 

Ricardo was injured in March and other than the 45 minutes against Zorya in December he didn't play a full 90 for us until February

 

But yeah I think what happens with LT will massively depend on our transfer dealings (signing a new LB) and how JJ recovers

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1 minute ago, Analysethis said:

It may sound like I am criticising Thomas by I genuinely am not, I am a fan. Its just this is all happening too soon for him. He isn't ready today but he is certainly solid enough for a lower Prem club or a Play-off chasing championship club. I could see him in a season learning so much that we have no option but to keep him in the first team squad. For now though, I would prefer someone with a better all round game today like a Gosens and if we believe what we read the club is thinking the same way. If we do indeed sign someone then there is no point in keeping LT here for now which is the point I have been making all along.

 

I agree with your Barnes point. The problem is if Brendan persists with a 352, I even worry where Barnes fits in if we play Iheanacho. I really hope we do go back to a 433 formation which is where we are more effective.

 

I think Riccardo will be fine next season after some rest and a pre-season. I'm sure he will return to his best. As for Catsagne, I hope he stays away from LB!

It's not your view that Thomas is raw I'm opposing here - it's what I perceive to be short-sightedness on your part.

Signing someone like Gosens to solve a short-term issue is not the way forward.
Assuming Justin makes a full recovery, we'd have two great English talents at fullback, but as others have said, Thomas is our best cover there until Justin (and Ricardo) are back to their usual selves.

If we sign a left back and send out Thomas on loan, the only scenario I see is that we sell Ricardo or Castagne next summer. Unless Rodgers somehow succesfully converts Ricardo to a forward/winger.

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10 minutes ago, shen said:

So which of those four would you sell for when Thomas returns from a season long loan? We can't have 5 fullbacks fighting for 2 starting spots.

There are far too many ifs and buts to worry about that for now. JJ and Riccardo need to get back to fitness and form after horrific injuries and god knows what injury nightmares lie ahead. Also we hope that LT reaches his potential so lets see how he progresses. Many of us on here (including me) thought that Hamza was a solution at one stage in central midfield but he has gone backwards over two years. 

 

Let the club have that lovely "problem" to deal with later!

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Only player to show some fight & passion for the badge when he came on.  Good that his confidence not knocked by last couple of matches / not starting tonight.

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2 minutes ago, shen said:

It's not your view that Thomas is raw I'm opposing here - it's what I perceive to be short-sightedness on your part.

Signing someone like Gosens to solve a short-term issue is not the way forward.
Assuming Justin makes a full recovery, we'd have two great English talents at fullback, but as others have said, Thomas is our best cover there until Justin (and Ricardo) are back to their usual selves.

If we sign a left back and send out Thomas on loan, the only scenario I see is that we sell Ricardo or Castagne next summer. Unless Rodgers somehow succesfully converts Ricardo to a forward/winger.

You cant play Thomas when he isn't ready. Thats the problem for me but I do accept that this isnt the common view in here.

 

I dont think he is ready, many of you would keep him without a signing. That means with JJ out, you would be comfortable he is our first choice in position. If you look at a club who is currently below us in the table in Chelsea, they loaned out Reece-James who then came back to challenge for a first team place (and represent England) and they have Azpilicueta on the right whilst Chilwell and Alonso do battle on the left. Whatever anyone thinks of Alonso running towards his goal, he is very good going the other way and I`d want us to have more seasoned players here and now who can do a similar job.

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6 minutes ago, Analysethis said:

You cant play Thomas when he isn't ready. Thats the problem for me but I do accept that this isnt the common view in here.

 

I dont think he is ready, many of you would keep him without a signing. That means with JJ out, you would be comfortable he is our first choice in position. If you look at a club who is currently below us in the table in Chelsea, they loaned out Reece-James who then came back to challenge for a first team place (and represent England) and they have Azpilicueta on the right whilst Chilwell and Alonso do battle on the left. Whatever anyone thinks of Alonso running towards his goal, he is very good going the other way and I`d want us to have more seasoned players here and now who can do a similar job.

Justin started this season and many blamed him for several goals conceded in our first few games. It was clearly expected that Castagne would switch over once Ricardo was back.
I don't think many saw it coming how he'd completely lock down the leftback slot a few months later, arguably being our player of the season until his injury.

 

Thomas has been inconsistent and possibly nervous lately, but still he hasn't dropped clangers of the magnitude that Cags did today. Whisper it quietly, but Fofana has had numerous lapses (majorly involved in two goals conceded today), but it feels like he gets a free pass. Maybe because a) he stormed onto the scene, b) he cost a fortune and/or c) having a 'Ramadan' excuse. Truth be told, Fofana isn't strictly "ready" either by the same token Thomas isn't.

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1 minute ago, shen said:

Justin started this season and many blamed him for several goals conceded in our first few games. It was clearly expected that Castagne would switch over once Ricardo was back.
I don't think many saw it coming how he'd completely lock down the leftback slot a few months later, arguably being our player of the season until his injury.

 

Thomas has been inconsistent and possibly nervous lately, but still he hasn't dropped clangers of the magnitude that Cags did today. Whisper it quietly, but Fofana has had numerous lapses (majorly involved in two goals conceded today), but it feels like he gets a free pass. Maybe because a) he stormed onto the scene, b) he cost a fortune and/or c) having a 'Ramadan' excuse. Truth be told, Fofana isn't strictly "ready" either by the same token Thomas isn't.

Justin was pretty shit early on. Got totally bullied twice v Burnley for the goals in a way we've never seen Thomas get bullied. Like you say Forfana has been at fault a few times, he steps out at the wrong time, body shape all wrong etc. I like the fact we play an aggressive style with our CB, they attack the ball, but Forfana does get it wrong at times.

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24 minutes ago, Bob666 said:

Only player to show some fight & passion for the badge when he came on.  Good that his confidence not knocked by last couple of matches / not starting tonight.

a little unfair on Albrighton who I thought was excellent again, and I think Youri and Nacho were fine as well

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Just now, Facecloth said:

Justin was pretty shit early on. Got totally bullied twice v Burnley for the goals in a way we've never seen Thomas get bullied. Like you say Forfana has been at fault a few times, he steps out at the wrong time, body shape all wrong etc. I like the fact we play an aggressive style with our CB, they attack the ball, but Forfana does get it wrong at times.

He not only gets it wrong positionally, but his eagerness to play ambitious balls is costing us time and again too. I don't want him to stop making progressive passes, but he needs to sharpen up his decision making at this level. At least, when Thomas is losing possession, it's principally in the opposition third, not our third.

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1 minute ago, splinterdream said:

a little unfair on Albrighton who I thought was excellent again, and I think Youri and Nacho were fine as well

Albrighton was a shit Chilwell first half. He never once challenged their fullback or ran beyond him. Very few successful actions, but that goes for the entire squad first half.

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5 minutes ago, shen said:

Albrighton was a shit Chilwell first half. He never once challenged their fullback or ran beyond him. Very few successful actions, but that goes for the entire squad first half.

maybe because they were pressing us so much, see my prior posts on playing players out of position. Albrighton is not a wing back, but he makes the runs and when he did he was more effective than most imo

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7 minutes ago, splinterdream said:

maybe because they were pressing us so much, see my prior posts on playing players out of position. Albrighton is not a wing back, but he makes the runs and when he did he was more effective than most imo

Look I'm not blaming Marc for today. But he most certainly wasn't excellent. That might not be his fault because he wasn't helped by his teammates and manager, but we were hopeless until he was moved to the right and Thomas came on.

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1 minute ago, shen said:

Look I'm not blaming Marc for today. But he most certainly wasn't excellent. That might not be his fault because he wasn't helped by his teammates and manager, but we were hopeless until he was moved to the right and Thomas came on.

I think we agree, Rodgers needs to play players in their positions, play the formation to suit the team. 

 

As for Marc, what I'm saying is he put in his shift, his effectiveness is down to the formation and the players around him. 

 

he scored so shat more can you say. 

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