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Sjf123

Schmeichel's Kicking

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Sometimes great (rarely)

 

Mostly a fvcking lottery

 

I shouldn't but there's something I don't like about him.  He is a good keeper.  There's plenty of teams that would take him.  It's just that he seems to be held in a higher bracket than he actually is.  I'm Burnley get relegated & we snatch Pope

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2 hours ago, Fox92 said:

Some people like to over analyse and if they actually knew that much about tactics then they'd be football managers.

 

Ah, the classic "I don't understand something so clearly nobody else does either."

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25 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Ah, the classic "I don't understand something so clearly nobody else does either."

Nah, I cleared this up, was a dick post by me I was just pissed off.

 

PLUS ... I got banned for a day for some reason about 5 years ago.. pretty sure all I did was say Kasper's kicking was shit so I'm not falling into that trap again..

Edited by Fox92
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27 minutes ago, Adster said:

You will. 

 

Step up, @StriderHiryu.

This has come up before, sort of. The question was why Leicester's defenders stand either side of Schmeichel when he kicks it. There is a reason for it, and for his kicking, which is down to the new goal kick rule introduced at the start of last season. But before I rehash that, it doesn't excuse Kasper's kicking. I can explain what he's trying to do, but he's not pulling it off consistently which is fair criticism. 

 

The "new" goal kick rule:

  • The ball must be stationary and is kicked from any point within the goal area by a player of the defending team
  • The ball is in play when it leaves the penalty area is kicked and clearly moves
  • Opponents must be outside the penalty area until the ball is in play

The change is this - the ball is in play immediately after it is kicked. This results in two key changes in the game: The outfield players of the build-up team can be inside the penalty area or even take the goal kick and the pressing team players can enter the penalty area as soon as the ball moves and it need not leave the penalty area. Liverpool exploit this a lot with the extreme high press.

 

The tweak in the goal kick rule means that the entire half of the field is now open to play. The pressing team players can press from the half-way line to the opposition goal line. This rule change has also provided more space for the build-up team to play the ball in, and the goalkeeper gets safe short passing options as well as long passing options. The centre-backs can now position themselves inside the penalty area and the full-backs can drop deeper to provide the numerical overload to counter the first line of press.

 

Figure 3 : Full-backs in higher positions

^ A typical position of our players from goal-kick.

Figure 4 : CB taking goal kick pass to GK. Then GK passes to the free FB.

^ The opposition presses the centre backs, leaving space for full backs, which Kasper then tries to hit. If he's successful, we have beaten the first press and our full back has space to drive forwards into. 

 

 

 

Kasper attempts this pass many times per game, but he's guilty of hitting the touchline instead on multiple occasions. 

 

 

 
 
 
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3 hours ago, Sjf123 said:

Could one of the tactical analysts help me out? I’m struggling to understand the tactical thinking behind Schmeichel’s constant lofted passes to the right wing well inside our own half.

 

These passes either go straight out for a throw-in to the opposition or the lofted trajectory allows the opposition player the opportunity of a great run and jump to win the ball in a dangerous area.

 

Our central defenders who have split wide to offer Schmeichel the alternative short pass are then scrambling to get back in position.

 

It happens every game. Braga’s second goal came directly from this, and it caused issues throughout the game. Against better teams like Liverpool it’s suicidal to concede possession every time in this dangerous area with defenders split out of position.

 

For all of Schmeichel’s fantastic shop-stopping abilities, it seems as though more and more of his saves are only necessary because he’s given the ball away a few seconds earlier with this type of distribution.

 

Why is this a better tactic than simply lumping the ball longer? By hitting it longer, with a flatter trajectory, you allow the possibility of an opposition defender making a mistake in a dangerous area, or our attackers picking up the second ball if they were positioned higher up the pitch expecting this distribution. I may be wrong, but Schmeichel deliberately seemed to kick it longer when playing against Man City, Leeds and Arsenal, with more success.

 

I don’t notice any other goalkeepers constantly using this type of pass. It seems to create more issues than it solves. What is the tactical reasoning behind it?

100% agree with the analysis.

 

Interesting arguments on tactical justification from @StriderHiryuwhich may be right? But as Strider acknowledges, Kasper’s execution is p**s poor most of the time anyway.

Edited by Steve Earle
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1 hour ago, StriderHiryu said:

This has come up before, sort of. The question was why Leicester's defenders stand either side of Schmeichel when he kicks it. There is a reason for it, and for his kicking, which is down to the new goal kick rule introduced at the start of last season. But before I rehash that, it doesn't excuse Kasper's kicking. I can explain what he's trying to do, but he's not pulling it off consistently which is fair criticism. 

 

The "new" goal kick rule:

  • The ball must be stationary and is kicked from any point within the goal area by a player of the defending team
  • The ball is in play when it leaves the penalty area is kicked and clearly moves
  • Opponents must be outside the penalty area until the ball is in play

The change is this - the ball is in play immediately after it is kicked. This results in two key changes in the game: The outfield players of the build-up team can be inside the penalty area or even take the goal kick and the pressing team players can enter the penalty area as soon as the ball moves and it need not leave the penalty area. Liverpool exploit this a lot with the extreme high press.

 

The tweak in the goal kick rule means that the entire half of the field is now open to play. The pressing team players can press from the half-way line to the opposition goal line. This rule change has also provided more space for the build-up team to play the ball in, and the goalkeeper gets safe short passing options as well as long passing options. The centre-backs can now position themselves inside the penalty area and the full-backs can drop deeper to provide the numerical overload to counter the first line of press.

 

Figure 3 : Full-backs in higher positions

^ A typical position of our players from goal-kick.

Figure 4 : CB taking goal kick pass to GK. Then GK passes to the free FB.

^ The opposition presses the centre backs, leaving space for full backs, which Kasper then tries to hit. If he's successful, we have beaten the first press and our full back has space to drive forwards into. 

 

 

 

Kasper attempts this pass many times per game, but he's guilty of hitting the touchline instead on multiple occasions. 

 

 

 
 
 

He’s way too inconsistent with it... passes are either overhit or too lofty puting the receiver in immense pressure which usually results in us losing the ball.

 

Like I said in match thread, he’s got a very strong kick so would prefer kicking it wide but higher up the pitch and put their defenders under pressure.

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5 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

I question whether Kasper's kicking is as bad as some people claim that it is.

 

I know that he sometimes messes up - kicks it to the opposition or straight out of touch.

I also agree that he seems to do that more often than the average PL keeper.

 

But I have the impression that he also takes more risks with his kicking than the average PL keeper - kicks aimed at players tight to the byline or taken very quickly when he gets the ball and spots a potential break.

Such kicks are more likely to go wrong - but also more likely to create extra surprise attacking opportunities....and I do also have the impression that he sets up more dangerous breaks than the average keeper.

 

I have no stats to back up this argument - it's just an impression...

This. Years ago in the championship he kicked a 70+ yard ball found Knockaert on the wing and created a goal out of nothing. 
 

Assist for Vardy vs Arsenal 

 

Quick throws out too - Kasper - Fuchs - Vardy for 11 in 11. 

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He grew up in an era where playing out from the back wasn't a big focus- plus his long kicking has been productive in the past. The floaty balls are hit and miss, he doesn't tend to pass it straight to opponents a few yards, we tend to lose it around 30 yards from goal. 

 

Ndidi usually offers a short pass so hopefully when he's back we can utilise that.

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Thanks. Some really interesting responses. I wasn’t necessarily criticising Schmeichel’s kicking - it was more questioning a tactic and technique that asks a lot of his distribution and seems to be inviting more and more pressure in the past couple of weeks.

 

I agree, it worked better when he had Chilwell as that outlet on the left, as he had a good leap on him. With Castagne and Ricardo back, then it might be more successful, but it doesn’t seem to be working well at the moment and I was wondering why they keep persisting with it.

 

For sure, it would be good to see Schmeichel come off his line and dominate the area. The Braga keeper noticeably took responsibility and took pressure off his defence last night (if we ignore his shanked clearance that went out for a corner!)

 

We obviously tend to notice our own players’ flaws as we’re exposed to them more often. Schmeichel’s one of the best shot-stoppers in the world, but it would be good not to have to make those saves at all by not giving the ball away in the first place or by dominating the box more. It may be a case of you don’t know what you have until it’s gone, but I agree that it would be interesting to see Pope here.

 

I accept that whacking it down the pitch doesn’t really fit in with the possession based football that Rodgers is implementing, but if you’re going to lose possession anyway with a 50/50 chip to the wing or into touch, then why this can't happen with a flatter ball to the wings further down the pitch?

 

70+ yard ball to Knockaert, quick flat kick to Vardy, quick throw out to Fuchs. Happy with all this. I’d even be happier with Schmeichel bouncing the ball three times and giving it a 1970’s lump as far as possible in the general direction of the opposition goal! It’s that pointless chip that doesn’t even get near to the halfway line and only invites pressure time after time that I don’t understand.

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37 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

This. Years ago in the championship he kicked a 70+ yard ball found Knockaert on the wing and created a goal out of nothing. 
 

Assist for Vardy vs Arsenal 

 

Quick throws out too - Kasper - Fuchs - Vardy for 11 in 11. 

I'm convinced he was better than he is now. But then that probably comes from remember these events from years ago, and not the punts into touch from years ago.

Edited by Fktf
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2 hours ago, jmono84 said:

He’s way too inconsistent with it... passes are either overhit or too lofty puting the receiver in immense pressure which usually results in us losing the ball.

 

Like I said in match thread, he’s got a very strong kick so would prefer kicking it wide but higher up the pitch and put their defenders under pressure.

This is my frustration with the tactic. By the time the lofted pass has made it to the full back, the player marking our cm has got out there to pressure the first touch, or turned it into a 50 50 header

Edited by Fktf
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