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10 minutes ago, Foxy-Lady said:

Great OP by the way @Halifax Fox......agree with all your sentiments but this point particularly resonated with me as i was saying exact same thing to my son last night about how the advantage is immediately taken away from the attacking team as the defending team are all allowed to regain their shape....just for a simple free-kick which may probably result in NO advantage whatsoever.

 

Introducing a 3rd type of card would overcomplicate and already difficult job for refs but i wonder if there were a 5 min sin-bin penalty introduced for "professional fouls" which prevent a clear advantage being gained? If players got a 5 min sin-bin, the attacking team would still maintain the advantage they previously had and at best....it might force players to think twice about doing it!

Like Ice hockey. The Power Play :). One man up doesn't feel like much of an advantage in football especially when the other team just parks the bus or changes shape. The more the game is corrected the more complicated it becomes.

Its a human game played by humans. When we add the interaction of machines, from the clock to slow motion replay, is when everything starts to go out of wack. Us humans are not perfect. Perfectly imperfect perhaps. Maybe we should decide who controls the game Humans or machines? Oh that''s right, humans build and control machines. Back to the beginning and start again. Where does it stop when the target never stops moving.

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1 hour ago, Foxy-Lady said:

Great OP by the way @Halifax Fox......agree with all your sentiments but this point particularly resonated with me as i was saying exact same thing to my son last night about how the advantage is immediately taken away from the attacking team as the defending team are all allowed to regain their shape....just for a simple free-kick which may probably result in NO advantage whatsoever.

 

Introducing a 3rd type of card would overcomplicate and already difficult job for refs but i wonder if there were a 5 min sin-bin penalty introduced for "professional fouls" which prevent a clear advantage being gained? If players got a 5 min sin-bin, the attacking team would still maintain the advantage they previously had and at best....it might force players to think twice about doing it!

Good idea in theory, but can referees be trusted to implement it fairly? It just gives them another opportunity to interpret situations favourably for certain clubs.

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On 3/2/2021 at 16:05, jmono84 said:

VAR ain’t bothered me that much, it’s more the cheating culture which a ‘good’ footballer has to have now. Refs in England are crap, the best ref this year was the woman ref in one of our Europe league, I was genuinely shocked by the amount of times a player fell over after a challenge and I was expecting a soft free kick but she indicated play on. Was a breath of fresh air and I hope she continues like that.

 

The likes of Fernandes and Grealish cheating several times a game is what ruins it for me.

Kudos to the female ref! The thing is, the players adapted within a few tackles and started to not cry after every tackle from there! Such a better game! 

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While some sore heads will rue last nights endeavours
And make Sundays vow that they won't get so leathered
Dads shout at lads so they foul number 7
There's no need for fighting they're only 11
A little introduction to the state of things

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On 03/02/2021 at 16:15, Ian Nacho said:

I blame the referees for constant soft free kicks. If players they’re going to get free kicks for going down easy they’re going to do it. If referees just decided to stop giving soft free kicks, it’d soon stop. 

Agreed.

Maddison is guilty of this tbf. A lot of the time he's just waiting to be touched.

We used to make fun of Heskey for constantly falling over but in the modern game he'd be getting us loads of freekicks!

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2 hours ago, Halifax Fox said:

Southampton’s Jan Bednarek’s red card has been rescinded.

I'd like to request Peter Waltons useless opinion be removed this weekend in its place, whats the point in having him on to just agree with everyone even when its wrong.

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17 minutes ago, lcfcsnow said:

I'd like to request Peter Waltons useless opinion be removed this weekend in its place, whats the point in having him on to just agree with everyone even when its wrong.

 "Let's just go over to Peter Walton now to see what convoluted, nuanced, interpretation of the rules he can find to agree with the referee's decision this time....." 

Edited by Jobyfox
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Did VAR look at Bednarek's red card? Don't tell me they made two decisions (on field then VAR) during the game and now it's been overturned lol Mind you, all adds up to their corruption towards Manchester United..

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There’s too much ‘fair play’ in youth football in England these days, no wonder why so many don’t know how to win without cheating because they haven’t developed that winning mentality. 
 

Think the foreign players just know the refs are useless and will buy their tricks from the continent, South America etc. 

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On 03/02/2021 at 13:05, Dahnsouff said:

...alternate take. There is so much more money in the game here than in Europe. 

Money. If by some magic we could get the genie back in the bottle.

 

!/ Most footballers would play for say £100k per year,and feel privileged..

2/Most football managers would struggle to find a management job in other disciplines at over say £150K a year. 

3/ Most footballers skills are way below the skills of other professionals.

4/ Most matches are not worth £60 to watch as entertainment.

5/Most talented people earn less than in the entertainment industry which football has now become.

6/ Most football pundits, commentators etc know little more than the average fan and are poor and overpaid.

7/ VAR could be good as line calls technology in tennis are. Money is at the root of VARs incompetence.

8/ For football read any sport attracting large interest.

9/Much of football is corrupt.

10/ As you say there is more money in the game here than in Europe sod we suffer the above more than Europe.

11/ I'll say nothing about football agents .Least said the better

 

Notice I say "most" not all and I am referring only to top level football say above championship level. The further one goes down football towrds the amateur game the less true the above statements are.I could type many words justifying the above sweeping statements. and am prepared to if anyone doubts any particular statement. Most are imo so self evident as to be indisputable.

 

But sigh I still love the game even as entertainment and not sport and how do we get the genie back.? Jimmy Hill had you known what you were unleashing I doubt you'd have done it. It costs us all a great deal of money, The billions don't grow on football pitches in an agricultural sense .

 

 

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29 minutes ago, lcfcsnow said:

I'd like to request Peter Waltons useless opinion be removed this weekend in its place, whats the point in having him on to just agree with everyone even when its wrong.

Totally agree. What's more, Darren Fletcher and the other commentator think that too. DF always sounds like he couldn't give a flying **** what Walton thinks. Adds nothing to their broadcast.

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On 3.2.2021 at 13:31, Halifax Fox said:

I can’t ever remember being so disillusioned with football as I feel just now. 

Having followed the Foxes ever since the Matt Gillies era, I’ve become more than used to the ebb and flow of the highs and lows we all experience as supporters. However, I can’t think of a time when the administration of the game has seemed so inept, so inept that we have to have updates, adjustments and clarification of events and the interpretation of the laws of the game as we go along.

 

I was fully in favour of the introduction of VAR, but it’s quite obvious that the full implications of it were never fully realised by the powers that be, nor the method trialled properly. We have lines drawn on our screens that take minutes to differentiate and are supposed to show offside. Not once have I seen any reference to the chosen freeze frame being synchronised with the pass that created the movement in question. I don’t believe that the exact time of the ball leaving a player’s foot can be measured so accurately that it can be linked to millimetres difference in the positions of two players within the context of a game. The offside law and its interpretation have to be changed.

 

When will referees start to give fouls without a player having to collapse writhing to the floor. Last night’s games saw one player ‘win’ a penalty having been touched by a force that wouldn’t have floored my two year old grandson. Another player struggling (dare I say manfully?) and managing to stay on his feet under a far heavier challenge got nothing. The referees have encouraged diving with their ineptitude and inconsistencies and don’t seem able to interpret players’ actions and intentions even when able to have another look on a pitch side monitor. 
 

Which now brings me to the actions of players. One player ‘wins’ a penalty. Another is sent off whilst appearing to try to avoid contact with the aforementioned player. I fully appreciate that intent does not come into judging whether a foul is committed but how some players can look themselves in the mirror is beyond me. Some must have no self respect. Players constantly appealing for the throw-in every time it goes out irrespective of whom it last touched is another irritation. The so called professional foul, taking one for the team should surely merit more than a yellow card if a likely counterattack is stopped in its tracks.

 

Last night’s games left me frustrated that once again the ex-professionals, the pundits, were all saying similar things to what lots are saying so many times on this forum and I’m sure on others too, and nothing changes.

Loved your post...Looks like we are end of 50s-60s Soul mates...

 

One of the Major reasons I only want the game ref to be the last decision maker...It gives him time to take a breather & look again at the monitor ....

VAR..assistant,can & should Jump in, but not be the last decision maker...

if a foul is questioned...and no clear decision made , for various mitigating game reasons , in retrospect like in Rugby I believe, there is enough Money in the

game to have Weekly Boards to sit together & besides other things could sit & judge in ,Falling over,diving,brutal offical-missed fouls ( Not mistimed).

Offside decisions , recognised or missed, & discussed First within the game authorities.

Missed or seen but considered, too Light a decision on game day bring guilty players to book, by issuing yellow or red cards..

After  the game...!

 

VAR should be there to suggest, but the incident should still be decided by the onfield ref, or when he himself asks for support

after being shown "all ( enough) angles"...

 

Fans Shouldnt forget any Time wasted is actually the fault of the players or indirect the managet by cheating...Not The officials...!!

 

Trying to Add some Common-sense on offside...Only offside if body/torso is deemed offside, considered gaining only advantage if the whole body

is ....1ft, 1yard, 1metre, or some space.

Whatever decision the officials decide...Leave legs,arms,feet, and even head in a Diving Header out of it..!!

Defenders should be expected to be able to defend that space around or entities of the body/torso..

 

Fans forget when we wanted or didnt want to go with VAR, sport/Football will always bring up new suprising incidents.

First seasons were always going to be Experimental with hiccups

 

At present VAR is Not the guilty Party ,but the blindness of how officials, present it,  and leave the the official Match day officials in the shite . Bit

Sideline Monitor should always be used gameday ref end descision.... When decision or incident comes into question even if Play has to be brought back..!!

 

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6 hours ago, SO1 said:

Like Ice hockey. The Power Play :). One man up doesn't feel like much of an advantage in football especially when the other team just parks the bus or changes shape. The more the game is corrected the more complicated it becomes.

Its a human game played by humans. When we add the interaction of machines, from the clock to slow motion replay, is when everything starts to go out of wack. Us humans are not perfect. Perfectly imperfect perhaps. Maybe we should decide who controls the game Humans or machines? Oh that''s right, humans build and control machines. Back to the beginning and start again. Where does it stop when the target never stops moving.

Lol, someone’s not seen The Matrix.

Edited by Blarmy
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From the cheddar man ancestors, to the celts, to the romans, to the anglo-saxons and the modern day english... saying, proverbs and ancient wisdom have been passed down from person-to-person in this city and country. They identify who we are. Yet in about 6 months VAR has completely obliterated the saying “two sets of eyes are better than one”.

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Just read through this thread - absolutely excellent.  The OP created the vibe with a great post.

 

Loads to agree with but I am going to speak up for the castigated referee.

 

Everything is scrutinised from nearly every perceivable angle and there is no way the human eye can pick everything out (hence VAR).  Things are made worse by players being encouraged, and rewarded, to “cheat” whilst the commentary teams and studio experts appear to be reluctant to call it out.

 

A definition of “clear and obvious” [I think I know what that means but it seems to have got lost] would help referees here.  To me, clear and obvious, is NOT drawing a number of lines and taking minutes to determine.

 

However, fundamentally for me, is the integrity of the game.  I would love VAR to be used to pick out cheating especially when it involves the potential of getting another player sent off.

 

As regards penalties: as these are all reviewed I think the referee should be instructed to speak to the players involved first on the understanding it will be reviewed if there is disagreement - if the player “fouled” insists the decision is right he carries the risk of being sent off should it not be deemed a penalty and I would include falling over like he’d been shot.  Given what we have heard Anthony Martial is alleged to have said Mike Dean would not have had to consult a monitor, the game would have continued and less time would have been lost.

 

I realise this will need some finesse and will need the engagement of the players but I, too, am beginning to fall out of love with a game I love and at a time when my team are playing great football.  Cheating is killing it for me.

 

One final point, if I may - stop the clock at downtimes (substitutions, VAR reviews, ball out of play).  Time wasting has crept into the game more and more but with no additional time advantage it would probably speed up the game rather than pro-long it.

 

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I saw us win away from home in the Premier league on Wednesday with a number of key first team players missing and I didn't feel anything. It made me wonder whether I enjoy football the actual sport that much, or do I just like attending matches and supporting a football team? Really not bothering watching most games now, as I'm finding many of them to be boring. One thing football has going for it over any sport is the pure explosion of joy and adrenaline when the team you support scores, particularly when it's significant. Knowing that the goals can be ruled out by VAR has taken that feeling away and for me football as a sport doesn't really have much else going for it to hold my attention. 

Edited by BenTheFox
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The breakaway will happen. The current big 6 will become part of a euro super league and fifa will cave. The 6 will then have two squads (teams/entities), one for the euros and one for domestic, and they will rule both. Our ambitions will be limited to taking them on in the domestic league. F**k em every step of the way, and never join the twa*s.

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18 hours ago, Halifax Fox said:

So there we have it!

 

Southampton’s Jan Bednarek’s red card has been rescinded. The judgement of the independent regulatory commission was that this was a wrong decision and the commission has quite rightly in my opinion upheld Southampton‘s appeal.

 

But I feel that this still leaves a lot of unanswered questions. How on earth did the referee, and indeed the video assistant referee, arrive at the decision to send him off in the first place?

 

The mistake was bad enough in real time, but when the referee then watches reruns of the incident on the touchline monitor and sticks by his decision to award a penalty and send off the Southampton player then ridiculous descends into farcical.

 

Honest mistake? Arrogance? Incompetence? Intransigence? Corruption? Bias? Favouritism?

 

Whilst I’m sure we can discount several of these thoughts how can there possibly have been any mistake when using the video evidence that we all saw clearly on our screens. this from an experienced referee reportedly paid £200,000 a year plus a £1500 fee per game?

 

As always, information to supporters is both limited and given in very bland and broad terms. Are we just moving on from these mistakes with no action regarding the referee and video assistant in question? At the end of the season I hope that we don’t lose out on goal difference by one goal to MU!

 

One report suggests that Manchester United’s Martial was saying it wasn’t a foul even as Bednarek left the field which of course begs another question. In that case how come Martial fell over in the way he did or even why did he fall over at all? Perhaps therein lies the fundamental problem. If players play honestly it doesn’t put the referee in a position to make these mistakes.

 

The referee for our game against Fulham, Robert Jones, I thought had a decent enough game, but perhaps that was in part down to the two teams involved actually playing the game in decent spirit without too much playacting.

 

José Mourinho complains that the referee got it wrong when awarding a penalty to Chelsea last night. I wonder if he instructs his own players to play in a way that helps the referee?

 

In my post at the start of this thread I spoke of some of the reasons for my disillusionment with football just now. Despite the rescinded red card I have to say that I’m not any less frustrated or disillusioned.
 

COYF 🦊

 

 

Them overturning a red card that was given from VAR just totally sums the absolute shambles up. I find it honestly unbelievable they continue to enforce such utter garbage on the game. Get it gone at the earliest possible opportunity and laugh about it in future years.

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6 hours ago, BenTheFox said:

I saw us win away from home in the Premier league on Wednesday with a number of key first team players missing and I didn't feel anything. It made me wonder whether I enjoy football the actual sport that much, or do I just like attending matches and supporting a football team? Really not bothering watching most games now, as I'm finding many of them to be boring. One thing football has going for it over any sport is the pure explosion of joy and adrenaline when the team you support scores, particularly when it's significant. Knowing that the goals can be ruled out by VAR has taken that feeling away and for me football as a sport doesn't really have much else going for it to hold my attention. 

I still think it's a good sport on the whole it's just very much in a phase where it's not particularly serious. Watch a game without the fake crowd noise and you'd think it's a friendly. That part itself isn't the fault of football but it's a bit handicapped at the minute, and crowds make a tonne of difference, I am amazed anybody could think they don't. It adds so much more pressure and intensity to things.

 

I do think it'll get better, but probably not this season.

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On 03/02/2021 at 16:05, jmono84 said:

VAR ain’t bothered me that much, it’s more the cheating culture which a ‘good’ footballer has to have now. Refs in England are crap, the best ref this year was the woman ref in one of our Europe league, I was genuinely shocked by the amount of times a player fell over after a challenge and I was expecting a soft free kick but she indicated play on. Was a breath of fresh air and I hope she continues like that.

 

The likes of Fernandes and Grealish cheating several times a game is what ruins it for me.

I remember the female referee we had in the Europa league. She was very good.

 

Here she is: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stéphanie_Frappart

 

Interesting to note she went on to referee her first Champions League match in December.

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17 hours ago, Alan Frost said:

Money. If by some magic we could get the genie back in the bottle.

 

!/ Most footballers would play for say £100k per year,and feel privileged..

2/Most football managers would struggle to find a management job in other disciplines at over say £150K a year. 

3/ Most footballers skills are way below the skills of other professionals.

4/ Most matches are not worth £60 to watch as entertainment.

5/Most talented people earn less than in the entertainment industry which football has now become.

6/ Most football pundits, commentators etc know little more than the average fan and are poor and overpaid.

7/ VAR could be good as line calls technology in tennis are. Money is at the root of VARs incompetence.

8/ For football read any sport attracting large interest.

9/Much of football is corrupt.

10/ As you say there is more money in the game here than in Europe sod we suffer the above more than Europe.

11/ I'll say nothing about football agents .Least said the better

 

Notice I say "most" not all and I am referring only to top level football say above championship level. The further one goes down football towrds the amateur game the less true the above statements are.I could type many words justifying the above sweeping statements. and am prepared to if anyone doubts any particular statement. Most are imo so self evident as to be indisputable.

 

But sigh I still love the game even as entertainment and not sport and how do we get the genie back.? Jimmy Hill had you known what you were unleashing I doubt you'd have done it. It costs us all a great deal of money, The billions don't grow on football pitches in an agricultural sense .

 

 

If you take the money away from the players and managers it just goes straight to the Boardroom/Owners. This wouldn't help matters. You would just get greedy owners taking money out of the club with no need to reinvest and no desire to improve / develop things. Look at our club in the eighties if you think that sounds a bit far fetched. 

 

Similarly, you will get a pre-Jimmy Hill era situation of most clubs circumnavigating the wage cap rules and finding ways of enticing players across with mutli million pound gifts and brown envelope payments. 

 

I'm my opinion, money is the problem, but taking it away from the people who generate it is not the solution. 

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