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1 minute ago, Paddy. said:

I honestly thought Wales were the better side. They were far more disciplined throughout. The refereeing was diabolical but actually a bit of a side note. England did the hard bit by getting it back to 24-24 but then just inexplicably imploded. I was surprised that the replacements were even less disciplined than the starters. Some mind-boggling pens given away. Wales were far smarter.

Agree in discipline don’t think ENG got their heads back from ref. I’m purely basing my better team bit on physical play not managing heads.

As you mention replacements why did he not bring on Martin, usually the bench is emptied, if you not going to play him leave him at his club, he missing 5 Tigers games for this

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5 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

Agree in discipline don’t think ENG got their heads back from ref. I’m purely basing my better team bit on physical play not managing heads.

As you mention replacements why did he not bring on Martin, usually the bench is emptied, if you not going to play him leave him at his club, he missing 5 Tigers games for this

Yeah, this I agree completely with. There's no doubt Martin will go on to be a test player but he's only just establishing himself at Tigers. GM is far better off staying at Tigers and playing in 3 or 4 of those. I think Jones tries to be too clever with these left field picks - how often does it actually benefit the team? Not very often.

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17 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I turned it off. Absolutely ****ing disgraceful. Even kept persisting with it with Pivac and Faletau. 

 

Absolutely desperate to whip up drama over the ref. 

 

If England scored that second try against - say - Australia or the All Blacks or something, the beeb would be tripping over themselves to call it a brilliant bit of work by the TMO. Even Guscott was forced to admit quietly there that by the letter of the law the refs got it right. It's not a knock on. 

 

But then they keep hammering away it, Warburton had to sit there flanked by two former England internationals moaning away about how bad it all is before he finally gets to point out that you can chalk off those 14 points and England still lost. 

 

And some overly delicate Englishman will STILL complain that its Jiffy that's someone the blindly biased one ruining the BBC coverage. OK boys. 

On a side note, I absolutely love Sam Warburton. Loved him as a player and now love him as a pundit. I think he's superb and very balanced. Made Johnno and Guscott look a bit silly.

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As things like scrums evolve all the time, its important to have modern pundits in that area like Warburton (flanker) and Best (front row). The game has moved on even from Johnson's day and if you dont keep up you look like a dinosaur relying on your name to get by.

 

Think its easier to get away with it regarding the analysis of backs though. 

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34 minutes ago, Nalis said:

As things like scrums evolve all the time, its important to have modern pundits in that area like Warburton (flanker) and Best (front row). The game has moved on even from Johnson's day and if you dont keep up you look like a dinosaur relying on your name to get by.

 

Think its easier to get away with it regarding the analysis of backs though. 

Clive Woodward bothers me most. Every other word is 2003. It was 18 years ago and he had the best squad in the world, needs to get over himself. 

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5 minutes ago, BlueSi13 said:

Calling it, France and Ireland will roll us over quite comfortably.  Where that will leave Jones I have no idea.  I doubt any England head coach would be able to survive such a debacle regardless of past success.  

I wonder who they'd get in though? Rob Baxter at Exeter? He's achieved everything he can there. 

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7 hours ago, Super_horns said:

He was asked about it but seemed happy at Exeter but I guess he wasn’t going to exactly say yes I will leave.

The reservation would be that he was able to build Exeter in his own image over a number of years working with the players everyday. You won't get that luxury with England. 

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14 hours ago, BenTheFox said:

The likes of Jiffy, Brian Moore, Clive Woodward and Eddie Butler should not be on television. Their opinions were outdated 10 years. 

Can not stand Brian Moore, hard to believe he’s actually English the way he talks on commentary, and no not just this 6Ns.

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I do not care how biased you think Squidge is (certainly less so than Martin Johnson, Jeremy Guscott, Brian Moore, the Telegraph, Sonja Mcloughlin and the Times) - I do think this is a pretty interesting watch. 

 

 

 

Not only does he do better tactical analysis than the Beeb, BT or ITV, he's also got a perfectly valid point about the BBC whipping up drama for interest. 

 

If you're an England fan and you can't watch the section on the first try without feeling your frustration turn somewhat from the ref to your own team then you probably need to take off your Rose glasses for a moment and try again. 

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1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

I do not care how biased you think Squidge is (certainly less so than Martin Johnson, Jeremy Guscott, Brian Moore, the Telegraph, Sonja Mcloughlin and the Times) - I do think this is a pretty interesting watch. 

 

 

 

Not only does he do better tactical analysis than the Beeb, BT or ITV, he's also got a perfectly valid point about the BBC whipping up drama for interest. 

 

If you're an England fan and you can't watch the section on the first try without feeling your frustration turn somewhat from the ref to your own team then you probably need to take off your Rose glasses for a moment and try again. 

Yeah his videos are pretty spot on and tells you something you dont already know, i.e., what tv pundits are paid to do but don't do.

 

Enjoyed the ones he did during the World Cup.

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16 minutes ago, Nalis said:

Yeah his videos are pretty spot on and tells you something you dont already know, i.e., what tv pundits are paid to do but don't do.

 

Enjoyed the ones he did during the World Cup.

 

Yeah, I thought he got his first two Wales one of this Six Nations a bit backwards. He tried to claim Wales were comfortable 15 v 15 against Ireland and would have been favourites to go on and win regardless. He got a lot of pelters from Irish fans for it so in the following video for the Scotland match he heaped the praise on Scotland and claimed we only really won because of the card. 

 

I thought that was a bit of a reverse of reality tbh and he was probably trying to save face and row back a bit. We were very fortunate vs Ireland but, for me, would have comfortably beaten Scotland without the red. Scotland were in full collapse, hemorrhaging points and in full bottle mode before the card, which sort of woke them up a bit really and gave them something to rally around. Prior to that they looked leaderless and lost as the tide had totally swung. 

 

He's spot on about the Adams try at the weekend though. It isn't the ref's job to hold England's hand, it isn't his job to take away an opportunity for Wales to go quickly when they've clearly expressed a desire to.

 

It's England's own indiscipline that requires him to need Farrell to talk to his team, it's Ford not Faz that had got them all in to a tight huddle because he assumed Wales would kick and its England's own lethargy that sees them concede when the ref can quite clearly see the huddle is over but the England players just aren't going back to their positions with any urgency. 

 

As a Wales fan I'd be furious if Biggar expressed a desire to take a quick kick and the ref waited to England were all stood in perfect defensive posture and giving him the thumbs up before he put time back on. When a ref sends a captain back to talk to his team, he's not anticipating Faz gives a ten minute lecture - it's just "cut it out lads" or later in the game sometimes "next ones a yellow boys."

 

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2 hours ago, Finnegan said:

I do not care how biased you think Squidge is (certainly less so than Martin Johnson, Jeremy Guscott, Brian Moore, the Telegraph, Sonja Mcloughlin and the Times) - I do think this is a pretty interesting watch. 

 

 

 

Not only does he do better tactical analysis than the Beeb, BT or ITV, he's also got a perfectly valid point about the BBC whipping up drama for interest. 

 

If you're an England fan and you can't watch the section on the first try without feeling your frustration turn somewhat from the ref to your own team then you probably need to take off your Rose glasses for a moment and try again. 

This is excellent. Really enjoyed that. Thanks for posting.

 

As an aside. You an level many things at Brian Moore, but bias isn't one of them. 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Line-X said:

You an level many things at Brian Moore, but bias isn't one of them. 

 

lol lol lol lol

 

Is that a joke. 

 

There's different kinds of bias aren't there really when you talk about pundits. Jiffy, for example, really seems to wind up the English every Six Nations. He's constantly pelted with accusations of bias and its because he doesn't bother hiding who he wants to win.

 

It's very clear he's Welsh and wants Wales to win and usually England to lose. There's little groans when Wales do something badly and he's audibly excited when they look like scoring. I call this Wrighty Bias, as in Ian Wright. Ian Wright wears Arsenal on his sleeve and doesn't apologise for it. 

 

But like Ian Wright, Jiffy is honest and free in his praise for quality play by other teams, he's the first to put his hand up and congratulate whoever else is playing for good, exciting play, he's honest about refereeing calls - in fact if anything he'll often call for decisions to go against Wales because he's a bit old school and doesn't like seeing too much interference from the ref. 

 

He's not blinkered in what he sees or calls, there's not a lot of his commentary that's blinded by his loyalties. 

 

What Moore and Jiffy have in common is that both are willing to criticise their chosen teams, both get frustrated at bad play from their teams and both are honest enough to admit it - "that's just thick from England" is basically Moore's catchphrase. 

 

But where they differ is, I'm sorry, Brian Moore is hilariously blinkered. And that's okay, it's part of his shtick, its what makes him entertaining and why I think he's a funny double act with Eddie Butler who is just as bad the other way. He might be able to look back on a game in hindsight and be more neutral but in the heat of the moment he's so passionate and gets so wound up by it all he can't help himself. And again, that's part of the fun. I do like him on comms.

 

The only pundit who's more wildly blinkered than Moore is Andy Nicol who is probably the most biased man I've ever seen in sports broadcasting. I've no idea what sport he watches but for the last twenty years of Scotland in the doldrums he's thought they're the favourites for every game. He makes BKL look impartial for claiming England were the better side. 

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13 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

What Moore and Jiffy have in common is that both are willing to criticise their chosen teams, both get frustrated at bad play from their teams and both are honest enough to admit it - "that's just thick from England" is basically Moore's catchphrase. 

 

This is more what I was referring to. Also, although that became a tiresome cliché long ago, if intelligence and finesse was a hallmark of Eddie Jones' England - which it isn't - he perhaps wouldn't feel the need to say it so often. 

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1 minute ago, Line-X said:

This is more what I was referring to. Also, although that became a tiresome cliché long ago, if intelligence and finesse was a hallmark of Eddie Jones' England - which it isn't - he perhaps wouldn't feel the need to say it so often. 

 

Sort of true but he's been calling people thick and stupid for as long as he's been doing punditry to be fair, which definitely predates Eddie haha. 

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2 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

I'll say this once and only once........

 

 

..... 

 

 

 

 

  Hide contents

 

:englandsmile4wf: 

 

I must say I was curious to know where your loyalty lie in this match and not surprised. 

 

Bloody shame France v Wales wont be the grand slam decider after the France v Scotland match was postponed a few weeks back.

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