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Getting Brexit undone

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10 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Anyone who claims that uncertainty in the economy following the vote in 2016 and moreso the subsequent failure of may to gain a clear majority in her GE has not cost billions in lost GDP is at best ignorant at at worst disingenuous. 
 

we took a huge hit over several years - we’ve got to where we are now and covid has skewed everything. Hence it will be impossible to judge the upside (if there is any) now that we’ve actually left. 

Who has disputed that?

It's pretty obvious there will be short term issues and costs as there will be with any disruption or change.

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14 hours ago, danny. said:

Well, that's a lie.

 

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Wow, people actually using data. Fair play. Saying it's a lie is a bit strong though....from the charts more like 9 months for the euro and 2.5 years for the dollar so still makes the point that after leaving the eu the value of the pound has increased.

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6 minutes ago, January47 said:

Wow, people actually using data. Fair play. Saying it's a lie is a bit strong though....from the charts more like 9 months for the euro and 2.5 years for the dollar so still makes the point that after leaving the eu the value of the pound has increased.

Well, it’s not true, whether you intended to deceive or not. If the point you’re trying to make is that leaving the EU has resulted in a stronger pound then the data clearly shows otherwise as we’re nowhere near pre-referendum levels. It has gone up since the end of 2020 though, hopefully it carries on rising as it’s become very expensive to buy from the EU now!

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59 minutes ago, danny. said:

Well, it’s not true, whether you intended to deceive or not. If the point you’re trying to make is that leaving the EU has resulted in a stronger pound then the data clearly shows otherwise as we’re nowhere near pre-referendum levels. It has gone up since the end of 2020 though, hopefully it carries on rising as it’s become very expensive to buy from the EU now!

I didn't talk about changes since we had the referendum. The point I was making (not very well to be honest because I was too lazy to look up the data) is the value of the pound has risen recently despite all the warnings of doom and gloom

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29 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

And always fom those too young to have fought in it.

Look I don't care about the war or have anything against any other nationality because of it, but the EU is a direct result of and reaction to the second world war, so some some historical context is useful.

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1 hour ago, January47 said:

Wow, people actually using data. Fair play. Saying it's a lie is a bit strong though....from the charts more like 9 months for the euro and 2.5 years for the dollar so still makes the point that after leaving the eu the value of the pound has increased.

 

1 hour ago, danny. said:

Well, it’s not true, whether you intended to deceive or not. If the point you’re trying to make is that leaving the EU has resulted in a stronger pound then the data clearly shows otherwise as we’re nowhere near pre-referendum levels. It has gone up since the end of 2020 though, hopefully it carries on rising as it’s become very expensive to buy from the EU now!

 

26 minutes ago, January47 said:

I didn't talk about changes since we had the referendum. The point I was making (not very well to be honest because I was too lazy to look up the data) is the value of the pound has risen recently despite all the warnings of doom and gloom


anyone who is making an argument that Sterling has strengthened because of brexit is stark raving bonkers ......

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33 minutes ago, January47 said:

I didn't talk about changes since we had the referendum. The point I was making (not very well to be honest because I was too lazy to look up the data) is the value of the pound has risen recently despite all the warnings of doom and gloom

 

The value of the pound has risen slightly - since the Deal v. No Deal uncertainty ended (Dec. 2020).

 

But, as the pound/euro graph shows, sterling is still well below its level when the Withdrawal Act was agreed & signed (Dec. 2019-Jan. 2020)....never mind the much higher level before the Brexit referendum (2016).

In almost 5 years since the referendum, sterling has never got close to the level it was before that vote.

 

If you're going to look only at short-term stats, you'd presumably claim that Forest and Derby are both doing brilliantly, as they've moved out of the Championship relegation zone recently?

Never mind the fact that they were once regularly in the top tier and even, God help us, title winners. :D

 

(Caveat: of course, other factors will have influenced exchange rate movements - particularly the £/$ rate)

 

To be fair, some Brexiteers accepted that Brexit would damage the economy and living standards, but felt it was worth it in order to "take back control of our laws, borders and money" or whatever the cliché was - and that we'd strike great new trade deals with fast-growing nations in far-flung parts of the world.....let's see, eh?

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, SemperEadem said:

Weird fetish in this country about the war.

Odd thing to fetishise something that resulted in the deaths of countless millions of people, too, even if the cause for it was just.

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1 hour ago, January47 said:

I didn't talk about changes since we had the referendum. The point I was making (not very well to be honest because I was too lazy to look up the data) is the value of the pound has risen recently despite all the warnings of doom and gloom

Not disputing it’s an improvement, but it’s an improvement in the same way my broken leg is getting better, but it was more useful before I broke it. lol

 

(I don’t have a broken leg by the way)

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18 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

Which Country & in what way?

I would have thought the context makes that obvious, but seeing as it doesn't I'm guessing the answers are "the UK" and "view far too many aspects of current events in general including Brexit as well as other cultures through the context of that war while thinking nothing of the way things and people have changed in the eighty years since", in that order.

 

And to forestall the reply that there's no one that does that...well, there clearly is, as a post demonstrating it has been replied to on this very page of this very thread.

 

Sorry for replying for in your stead btw, @SemperEadem.

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2 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

The value of the pound has risen slightly - since the Deal v. No Deal uncertainty ended (Dec. 2020).

 

But, as the pound/euro graph shows, sterling is still well below its level when the Withdrawal Act was agreed & signed (Dec. 2019-Jan. 2020)....never mind the much higher level before the Brexit referendum (2016).

In almost 5 years since the referendum, sterling has never got close to the level it was before that vote.

 

If you're going to look only at short-term stats, you'd presumably claim that Forest and Derby are both doing brilliantly, as they've moved out of the Championship relegation zone recently?

Never mind the fact that they were once regularly in the top tier and even, God help us, title winners. :D

 

(Caveat: of course, other factors will have influenced exchange rate movements - particularly the £/$ rate)

 

To be fair, some Brexiteers accepted that Brexit would damage the economy and living standards, but felt it was worth it in order to "take back control of our laws, borders and money" or whatever the cliché was - and that we'd strike great new trade deals with fast-growing nations in far-flung parts of the world.....let's see, eh?

 

 

 

Nothing you say here is in contradiction to what I said because I was focusing on recent changes. Some forecasters in 2020 were predicting the end of civilisation starting in January.

It's almost as if you have an agenda to follow. 

And as far as I'm concerned I love how Forest and Derby are doing.

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5 hours ago, danny. said:

How old are you? I’m under 40 and have German and French friends and really no one cares about events from 80 years ago anymore. It’s the older generation clutching on to these events from another century that stops any progress. I wish you’d just let it go, the current generations have. 

We get weekly reminders of how bad we were 300+ years ago at the start of every football match. So I’m not sure it’s that weird to be honest to be a little bit resentful of events just outside our lifetime.

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Adam Payne
 
@adampayne26
· 1h
Stark lines from the @CommonsDCMS session on post-Brexit barriers to touring musicians • Will harm up-and-coming UK artists the most — £600 to do one gig in Spain • Some artists considering quitting altogether • Hauliers face “imminent insolvency”
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9 minutes ago, Strokes said:

We get weekly reminders of how bad we were 300+ years ago at the start of every football match. So I’m not sure it’s that weird to be honest to be a little bit resentful of events just outside our lifetime.

I'm reasonably sure what is being referred to here does in fact have some basis in current events (you could ask George Floyd, were he still alive...) rather than just being motivated by events beyond or close to beyond living memory.

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3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I'm reasonably sure what is being referred to here does in fact have some basis in current events (you could ask George Floyd, were he still alive...) rather than just being motivated by events beyond or close to beyond living memory.

George Floyd has nothing to do with this country and when events were escalating it was intimated that events from over 300 years ago were still an issue.

Thats fine but then don’t tell people they can’t feel anything about issues much less a time away.

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2 minutes ago, Strokes said:

George Floyd has nothing to do with this country and when events were escalating it was intimated that events from over 300 years ago were still an issue.

Thats fine but then don’t tell people they can’t feel anything about issues much less a time away.

But it does have to do with the issue of modern day racism in general, which is still evidently problematic in the present day in the UK (if the abuse certain footballers have been copping is anything to go by) as well as the US (though obviously not to the same degree).

 

There is no equivalence between the BLM movement and those who use WWII as an excuse to dislike Europe and its institutions, because the former has no basis in current events and the latter does, despite the use of some of the people involved going on about the slave trade as a convenient strawman.

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