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Getting Brexit undone

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3 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

We are an Island ain’t we ? The mentality is in the psyche. Our version of immigration is far more vivid. Land borders still have a natural circulation for society. 
 

I find interesting that Italy probably the next most Eurospectic country is ‘young’ and others such as Hungary have a history of imperial power. 
 

 

Depends if you view Russia as European or not. Also depends if you view Britain as fighting when in reality we were defending. Without rolling too much off topic, upsets my others half family with VE Day when a lot of Brits were in a horrific situation in South-East Asia. No victors in war 

Agree, I think being an island is the thing, many British people don't see themselves as European, in fact when talking about "in Europe" most people mean Europe minus Britain. Culturally many look to the US for direction and for a source of culture, the language being the same probably being a huge factor, to the extent I've heard many young English people with a faux-US accent and there is a growing prevalence for the usage of US words and spellings.

 

In mainland Europe people travel a lot more, the rail system is cheap and brilliant so it's really easy to get around, plus many people speak English + their native tongue, so the concept of being multilingual is natural, with many knowing several languages (for example the German and Dutch people I know also speak French to a decent level).

 

And after all that waffle, I guess those factors are going to make you feel more European, than a monolingual people on an island that look to the USA for influence.

Edited by danny.
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2 hours ago, BKLFox said:

You only need look at the results of the European Song Contest too know they all hate the UK :whistle:

 

 

Plus our entry is always awful, save for the year we had Blue and Lee Ryan dressed up as The Penguin.

How can we ever complete with the likes of Moldovan chasing a fairy on a unicycle around a trumpeteer with bland radio pop 

 

Edited by danny.
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Living in the EU I never got the impression that people disliked the UK. Quite the opposite in fact. Although I was living in E. Europe which is of course much more worried about Russia and socialism and the UK being the most Russophobic, free-market country in the union was always viewed very favourably. 

 

Most of the British-Empire-was-worse-than-the-Nazis type stuff seems to come from weirdos in America who pretend they're not American when they go abroad. 

 

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22 minutes ago, danny. said:

Agree, I think being an island is the thing, many British people don't see themselves as European, in fact when talking about "in Europe" most people mean Europe minus Britain. Culturally many look to the US for direction and for a source of culture, the language being the same probably being a huge factor, to the extent I've heard many young English people with a faux-US accent and there is a growing prevalence for the usage of US words and spellings.

 

In mainland Europe people travel a lot more, the rail system is cheap and brilliant so it's really easy to get around, plus many people speak English + their native tongue, so the concept of being multilingual is natural, with many knowing several languages (for example the German and Dutch people I know also speak French to a decent level).

 

And after all that waffle, I guess those factors are going to make you feel more European, than a monolingual people on an island that look to the USA for influence.

I've heard people referring to the "Europeans" in many countries in the EU. Italians say it all the time, the "Europeans" are making them do stuff.

 

I really don't think attitudes towards the EU are that shaped by how European people feel. However in other countries I think there is more awareness of the tangible benefits of the EU. Few people in Bulgaria, Poland, Italy, Spain will want to give up freedom of movement. The majority of Dutch and Belgian citizens don't want to put up barriers to trade with their neighbours. Ok that's partially explained by our island location, but there are other island people in the EU. If someone thinks we have a shortage of Indian curry chefs because Romanian fruit pickers are coming to the UK, it's not because they have grown up on an island.

 

To be honest I blame the fact that this 'feeling European' narrative has been so pushed in the UK on remainers as much as brexiters. For some reason they bought into the brexitist myth that you can feel either more European or more British when they should've been focussing on the benefits of free trade and movement. Maybe they didn't know. 

Edited by bovril
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24 minutes ago, bovril said:

Living in the EU I never got the impression that people disliked the UK. Quite the opposite in fact. Although I was living in E. Europe which is of course much more worried about Russia and socialism and the UK being the most Russophobic, free-market country in the union was always viewed very favourably. 

 

Most of the British-Empire-was-worse-than-the-Nazis type stuff seems to come from weirdos in America who pretend they're not American when they go abroad. 

 

That sounds a bit weird as the EU is not a country so you can't live in it. Also a bit weird that a rules based political organisation has a flag and anthem. 

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Just now, Spudulike said:

That sounds a bit weird as the EU is not a country so you can't live in it. Also a bit weird that a rules based political organisation has a flag and anthem. 

Lived in it all my life until 01/02/2020.

Anyway I'm guessing you understood from context what I meant. 

 

Edit: well technically from November 1993-2020

Edited by bovril
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5 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

That sounds a bit weird as the EU is not a country so you can't live in it. Also a bit weird that a rules based political organisation has a flag and anthem. 

"But if you believe you are a citizen of the world, you are a citizen of nowhere", then?

 

Funny, must have missed that memo, seeing as different people think that different arrangements of humans from big too small are the most important to them personally.

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38 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

That sounds a bit weird as the EU is not a country so you can't live in it. Also a bit weird that a rules based political organisation has a flag and anthem. 

 

The world is not a country, so I presume that you can't and don't live in it? Do you live on another planet, instead? :D

 

Also, isn't the UK a nation state comprising the countries of England, Scotland, Wales & N. Ireland?

If so, a nation state is a political organisation, isn't it? So, it's presumably impossible to live in the UK and "a bit weird" that it has a flag and an anthem?

 

If the UK is a country - meaning that you can live in it - does that mean that England is a country within another country, or do you not view England as a country? :dunno:

 

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