Madeleine McCann

[Head Honcho]

Absolutely. Almost every parent has, at some time, left their children in what is a normally "safe" situation but which would be deemed vulnerable if you forever thought of the sick, weird and perverted arseholes there are out there.

It's easy to preach or be wise in hindsight but I just sympathise with those parents who must now be at their wits end and feeling in utter despair to their very souls.

It's bad enough when your kid's not where they're supposed to be for a few minutes.

The parents are to blame full stop!

I feel for them I do, but the bottom line is you don't leave your kids alone and nip down the road to your local in this country . So why the hell do it abroad?

It beggars belief it really does.

Now is not the time for recriminations but I hope they get their daughter back soon and are then prosecuted to prevent other parents from doing the same in future.

I've listened to the press criticise everybody so far except the parents and I hope whatever the outcome the police issue them with a bill for the police time that has been used due to the neglect of their child.

[Katy]

The parents are to blame full stop!

I feel for them I do, but the bottom line is you don't leave your kids alone and nip down the road to your local in this country . So why the hell do it abroad?

It beggars belief it really does.

Now is not the time for recriminations but I hope they get their daughter back soon and are then prosecuted to prevent other parents from doing the same in future.

I've listened to the press criticise everybody so far except the parents and I hope whatever the outcome the police issue them with a bill for the police time that has been used due to the neglect of their child.

You are recriminating though.

I'm sure the parents are beating themselves up every second of every day about it, they don't need people like us to point out their apparent failings.

That sighting of a child with a man fitting her description was a false alarm unfortunately.

Edited 9 May 2007 by Katy

[davieG]

The phrase 'Holier than thou' springs to mind when I read this thread.

[Katy]

The phrase 'Holier than thou' springs to mind when I read this thread.

Quite!

We are all perfect in hindsight aren't we.

[davieG]

Quite!

We are all perfect in hindsight aren't we.

I remember when my three were youngish, the eldest lad, aged about 8/9 getting the hump in town and disappearing out of sight, he eventually turned up at home in Great Glen having walked home across the fields, talk about going nuts, you want to rip them apart for being so stupid and at the same time hug them so tight they'll never leave your side again.

In a society where children have been snatched from their own homes with parents in the next room, castigating this couple is just wrong. It's society that's fooked up! (I make no apologies for swearing in this context)

[Katy]

On a forum I frequent sometimes they are ripping the McCanns apart and I mean being totally vindictive and vicious, I feel ashamed to be a member of it now. The comments on here have been quite mild in comparison.

Ella has started asking questions about her now, it's been on the news so much - I mean what do you say for the best?

Edited 9 May 2007 by Katy

[Geo V]

I remember when my three were youngish, the eldest lad, aged about 8/9 getting the hump in town and disappearing out of sight, he eventually turned up at home in Great Glen having walked home across the fields, talk about going nuts, you want to rip them apart for being so stupid and at the same time hug them so tight they'll never leave your side again.

In a society where children have been snatched from their own homes with parents in the next room, castigating this couple is just wrong. It's society that's fooked up! (I make no apologies for swearing in this context)

There is a huge difference between parents who leave young kids home alone so they can go partying and those who allow there kids to play about in the room next door and something happens to them. You cant blame society for the fact that some people simply shouldnt be parents because all they think about is getting pi$$ed and dont give a damn that they have left young kids at home alone and those who dont want to smother there kids to the extent that they wont let them out of there sight.

In the past we have read of couples going away on there hols and leaving there kids at home and incidents similar to this and its just for plain selfish reasons. Its not society tahts to blame but the mindless acts of individuals who dont give a to$$.

[Head Honcho]

You are recriminating though.

I'm sure the parents are beating themselves up every second of every day about it, they don't need people like us to point out their apparent failings.

That sighting of a child with a man fitting her description was a false alarm unfortunately.

So you think we should just let the parents get away with it do you?

It doesn't matter the suffering they are going through now. Think about the child, who as a child has the right to expect her parents to look after her and not go swanning off to the local "tapas bar" for a few glasses of vino.

They've been foolish and I know they know that, but do you know, I can't help thinking the press reaction would've been a lot different if this had happened on some Benidorm hotel to a couple of chavs instead of a couple of professionals on a five star Mark Warner holiday.

[hairy]

Ella has started asking questions about her now, it's been on the news so much - I mean what do you say for the best?

My lad, 8, was crying in bed on Sunday night. He said he was worried someone will come and take him as happened to Madeleine. All we could do was reassure him.

To add some fuel to Allen's fire. Having been on a Mark Warner hoilday, I know they provide a baby sitting service so why didn't they use it?

[Katy]

So you think we should just let the parents get away with it do you?

It doesn't matter the suffering they are going through now. Think about the child, who as a child has the right to expect her parents to look after her and not go swanning off to the local "tapas bar" for a few glasses of vino.

They've been foolish and I know they know that, but do you know, I can't help thinking the press reaction would've been a lot different if this had happened on some Benidorm hotel to a couple of chavs instead of a couple of professionals on a five star Mark Warner holiday.

No I don't but what i'm saying is, now is not the time to start pointing the finger. The important issue is the child and the child alone, whatever your feelings towards the parents are, no one deserves some dirty paedo/bereaved parent/child trafficker coming along and stealing your kid!

You are probably right about the last bit though.

[Head Honcho]

My lad, 8, was crying in bed on Sunday night. He said he was worried someone will come and take him as happened to Madeleine. All we could do was reassure him.

To add some fuel to Allen's fire. Having been on a Mark Warner hoilday, I know they provide a baby sitting service so why didn't they use it?

Apparently, if your child is under 2 you have to stay with the child until it goes to sleep.

This was obviously too much bother, so they decided the best option would be to leave them all alone and check on them every half an hour which after a few glasses of vino turned into every hour

...........................and hindsight is wonderful I know but so is parenthood and with that comes responsibilities.

[davieG]

Apparently, if your child is under 2 you have to stay with the child until it goes to sleep.

This was obviously too much bother, so they decided the best option would be to leave them all alone and check on them every half an hour which after a few glasses of vino turned into every hour

...........................and hindsight is wonderful I know but so is parenthood and with that comes responsibilities.

As you seem to have all the FACTs about the situation and have obviously found them guilty can I just ask - where you there if not where did you get all this information from? The media! well they're to be trusted when there's a story to be had.

[James.]

As you seem to have all the FACTs about the situation and have obviously found them guilty can I just ask - where you there if not where did you get all this information from? The media! well they're to be trusted when there's a story to be had.

Surely the point is the parents were not there when the child was taken. Regardless of how long they were away, how far away they were or anything like that.

I have to say I agree with most of what Allen says.

Then again I'm happy to admit I'm not a parent and as such can not fully relate to either side of the argument.

[Guest]

They've been foolish and I know they know that, but do you know, I can't help thinking the press reaction would've been a lot different if this had happened on some Benidorm hotel to a couple of chavs instead of a couple of professionals on a five star Mark Warner holiday.

I've been saying the same thing, although I will probably get flack for agreeing.

[davieG]

Surely the point is the parents were not there when the child was taken. Regardless of how long they were away, how far away they were or anything like that.

I have to say I agree with most of what Allen says.

Then again I'm happy to admit I'm not a parent and as such can not fully relate to either side of the argument.

It's still making judgements without the facts.

As someone who has had four children and lost one through an accident I just think unless you're absolutely certain of those facts then you shouldn't be judgemental.

[Smudge]

I remember when my three were youngish, the eldest lad, aged about 8/9 getting the hump in town and disappearing out of sight, he eventually turned up at home in Great Glen having walked home across the fields, talk about going nuts, you want to rip them apart for being so stupid and at the same time hug them so tight they'll never leave your side again.

In a society where children have been snatched from their own homes with parents in the next room, castigating this couple is just wrong. It's society that's fooked up! (I make no apologies for swearing in this context)

Yep done that been there.....Leicester Market..............Saturday afternoon and packed. We later found my son sitting on the Corn Exchange steps after about 15 minutes, which seemed like two hours. He had stopped to look at some stall and we had kept walking.

On the beach in the South of France my daughter was paddling in the sea right in front of us and when we looked again she had dissapeared. I cannot describe the panic I felt and how "blind" I became. Again after an eternity which was probably a few minutes, we found her about 30 feet along the beach. Yep, mea culpa, and no doubt many of you have the right to say how could I have been so stupid. The answer is, I don't know but I was.........and that's that.

[Daggers]

To add some fuel to Allen's fire. Having been on a Mark Warner hoilday, I know they provide a baby sitting service so why didn't they use it?

Maybe they thought their kids would be better off without an unchecked, unqualified stranger in the room?

We used to leave our two with a "baby-sitter"...but then what would people be saying about me if the woman transpired to be a monster?

They were on holiday in a remote village resort and they made a judgement call. At this moment they will wish they'd done any of a number of things differently, but that doesn't bring the child back.

Maybe we should be debating that child offenders are treated differently across Europe rather than blaming the parents for failing to see this remote but horrific incident from transpiring?

[Head Honcho]

As you seem to have all the FACTs about the situation and have obviously found them guilty can I just ask - where you there if not where did you get all this information from? The media! well they're to be trusted when there's a story to be had.

I'll hold my hands up and say you're right I don't have all the facts but I think it's safe to say that they chose the pub over their childs security! This fact has never been in question has it?

You are right about the press though. It's easy to believe all they say when you want it too!

[hairy]

Maybe they thought their kids would be better off without an unchecked, unqualified stranger in the room?

We used to leave our two with a "baby-sitter"...but then what would people be saying about me if the woman transpired to be a monster?

They were on holiday in a remote village resort and they made a judgement call. At this moment they will wish they'd done any of a number of things differently, but that doesn't bring the child back.

Maybe we should be debating that child offenders are treated differently across Europe rather than blaming the parents for failing to see this remote but horrific incident from transpiring?

I am sure that Mark Warner would have to CRB its baby sitting staff to meet the current legal obligations.

[Thracian]

The parents are to blame full stop!

I feel for them I do, but the bottom line is you don't leave your kids alone and nip down the road to your local in this country . So why the hell do it abroad?

It beggars belief it really does.

Now is not the time for recriminations but I hope they get their daughter back soon and are then prosecuted to prevent other parents from doing the same in future.

I've listened to the press criticise everybody so far except the parents and I hope whatever the outcome the police issue them with a bill for the police time that has been used due to the neglect of their child.

There, presumably, goes the man who never made a mistake. Or the world's first perfect parent.

Edited 9 May 2007 by Thracian

[davieG]

Media driven 'facts' - derived opinion and that's just in this thread.

I cant say i didnt judge them either because i thought they had swanned off a mile down the road, but i saw where the hotel room was and the resturant was no more than 30 metres away. Its no different to having a massive house and you being in the kitchen while the kiddies are in another room, you cant see whats going on

When I saw on the news the distance to the restaurant to the hotel room, you can see how stupid the parents were, you just can't leave children of that age that far away from you for periods of 30 minutes.

Only when the child has been returned to the parents, should any consideration be given as to culpability and then it should be left to those who are in a position to get ALL the facts. We should all butt out and just wish for the safe return of this frightened little girl who will want nothing more than to be with her Mum and Dad.

[Head Honcho]

There, presumably, goes the man who never made a mistake. Or the world's first perfect parent.

You can presume all you want, but I'll tell you this. I'd never leave a child and two babies home alone in this country never mind a foreign one!

I returned home from Mexico on Monday and the children were never out of our sight for the full two weeks.

That might seem foreign to some on here but hey maybe I'm old fashioned

[Dr The Singh]

You can presume all you want, but I'll tell you this. I'd never leave a child and two babies home alone in this country never mind a foreign one!

I returned home from Mexico on Monday and the children were never out of our sight for the full two weeks.

That might seem foreign to some on here but hey maybe I'm old fashioned

Nothing old fashioned about that, just common sense!!!

[lcfc_jme]

I feel deeply sorry for the parents of this child, because nobody deserves to have their child abducted. It's not right and it's not fair. I won't sit here and lie, I do find them leaving the girl on her own irresponsible and I can't for the life of me understand why they'd do it. But I can be sure in saying they're asking themselves why they did it and beating themselves up for it now, wishing they hadn't done it.

I do hope that she's found safe, but I honestly can't see the girl being found alive, if at all. And I hope to God that she hasn't been sexually assaulted.

[Thracian]

You can presume all you want, but I'll tell you this. I'd never leave a child and two babies home alone in this country never mind a foreign one!

I returned home from Mexico on Monday and the children were never out of our sight for the full two weeks.

That might seem foreign to some on here but hey maybe I'm old fashioned

No-one would criticise you for that at all but people do make mistakes/misjudgements - and tragic ones sometimes - over their kids, on the road, in their everyday decisions.

The parents of that little girl will have learned a lesson in the most unforgiving and irrepairable way I imagine - and they won't benefit from further punishment at some later date.

Edited 9 May 2007 by Thracian