Tennis

[Guest MattP]

She'll be on a Nike poster by the end of the week.

 

Can't blame her for throwing in the sexism card, in 2018 it will actually gain her a lot of support.

[foxes_rule1978]

Serena Williams so hard done by and just had a baby as well remember... Haha

 

Well done Osaka fully deserved win and Ramos has nothing to worry about he applied the rules

[purpleronnie]

3 hours ago, MattP said:

She'll be on a Nike poster by the end of the week.

 

Can't blame her for throwing in the sexism card, in 2018 it will actually gain her a lot of support.

That's good to hear.

[Wymsey]

Her aggressive manner she used makes her exactly the type of individual that shouldn't be the well-known person who is trying to ramp up equal/women's rights awareness/campaigns etc.

 

Quite arrogant actions and embarrassing really, who unfortunately overshadowed a great performance from a talented youngster.

Edited 9 September 2018 by Wymeswold fox

[Carl the Llama]

11 hours ago, kingfox said:

 

The sexist card...to be fair to her she does have a point, I've seen the likes of Kyrgios, Sock, Fognini, Verdasco say much worse, yet the umpire lets it go. Seen a few other clips of the umpire Ramos and it seems he is stricter than other umpires, he is like the Pierluigi Collina of Tennis  doesn't take any bullshit which of course is a good thing.

 

Serena blew everything out of proportion starting with the cheating incident. Ramos never classed her as a cheat, she didn't cheat, Mouratoglou cheated, the problem lies with Mouratoglou, he deserves the verbal abuse not Ramos. Other players in that situation would've told their box to shut up and accept the violation, Serena being Serena has other ideas and goes on a massive breakdown rant again

The same umpire?  If the same umpire's letting men get away with worse verbal abuse then she might have a point but if we're comparing the actions of different umpires then it just proves that different umpires have different levels of tolerance.

[Bert]

I can’t believe she threw the sexist card out there. She straight away said “because I’m a woman”. Not once did the umpire say “game penalty because you’re a woman”. Embarrassing. I’m all for equal rights, but with equal rights comes equal responsibilities. She acted like some men have acted. You can’t expect to get away with shit like that just because you’re a woman. 

[Lionator]

I'm usually quite liberal on these things but she's out of order. If anybody knows any football referees then they'll always say that the red line is being called a cheat, which is what she effectively called the umpire here. Out of order for me and horribly condescending on true feminist issues within society.

[Guest MattP]

22 hours ago, MattP said:

Can't blame her for throwing in the sexism card, in 2018 it will actually gain her a lot of support.

Told you.

 

The WTA are now behind her and the usual suspects like Billie Jean-King etc are all lining up to bash the big bad male enforcing the rules.

 

We don't need facts or analysis anymore, she's a woman (with a daughter) and a man has upset her so she's right. 

[Nick]

Two sides to this - the judge didn't do much wrong - he in fact went by the letter of the law. Perhaps could have warned her though where he was headed with a game forfeit warning...

 

On the other hand the judges do treat men differently from women. A man behaves in a argumentative, petulant, angry way and its part of masculinity, testosterone and the game - and goes unpunished. A woman behaves in a similar way and they are not given the same leeway, the  threshold for such behaviour from especially male judges is lower and sanctions are imposed more suddenly as its considered 'un-ladylike' - women are then punished firstly for not behaving to a culturally constructed stereotype of how a female should behave and secondly often more harshly than their male counterparts as a result.

 

The above has been true of girls and women in criminal courts for years and has slowly been being addressed over the last couple of decades.

 

The above has also been true of harsher sentencing outcomes for black people too... so put the two together its hardly surprising that this is an issue.

 

I think she deserved the penalty for breaking her racket and the penalty for the way her coach behaved but I feel the judge punished her very quickly with arguably a lower threshold than what he'd have given a male behaving in a similar manner. Its not the first time this has happened and comparatively men get away with behaviours far worse and the application of the rules of tennis certainly varies more than it should from judge to judge.

 

 

[Guest MattP]

4 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

On the other hand the judges do treat men differently from women. A man behaves in a argumentative, petulant, angry way and its part of masculinity, testosterone and the game - and goes unpunished. A woman behaves in a similar way and they are not given the same leeway, the  threshold for such behaviour from especially male judges is lower and sanctions are imposed more suddenly as its considered 'un-ladylike' - women are then punished firstly for not behaving to a culturally constructed stereotype of how a female should behave and secondly often more harshly than their male counterparts as a result.

Where is the evidence for this? It keeps being said.

 

I've seen male players docked games numerous times on the challenger tour, I think Isner even lost a match a few years ago. Nalbandian was disqualified outright at Queens, McEnroe was defaulted at the Aussie Open.

 

I've seen Novak and Rafa have some rants on court but never for ten minutes during a game whilst questioning and insulting the integrity of an umpire.

 

I can't believe Serena has manage to turn herself into a victim on this. She's behaved deplorably over the years (I'll shove this ball down your throat springs to mind) and is lucky she hasn't been sanctioned more.

[AKCJ]

10 minutes ago, MattP said:

Where is the evidence for this? It keeps being said.

 

I've seen male players docked games numerous times on the challenger tour, I think Isner even lost a match a few years ago. Nalbandian was disqualified outright at Queens, McEnroe was defaulted at the Aussie Open.

 

I've seen Novak and Rafa have some rants on court but never for ten minutes during a game whilst questioning and insulting the integrity of an umpire.

 

I can't believe Serena has manage to turn herself into a victim on this. She's behaved deplorably over the years (I'll shove this ball down your throat springs to mind) and is lucky she hasn't been sanctioned more.

I think William's gripe is with that particular umpire.

[Facecloth]

9 minutes ago, MattP said:

Where is the evidence for this? It keeps being said.

 

I've seen male players docked games numerous times on the challenger tour, I think Isner even lost a match a few years ago. Nalbandian was disqualified outright at Queens, McEnroe was defaulted at the Aussie Open.

 

I've seen Novak and Rafa have some rants on court but never for ten minutes during a game whilst questioning and insulting the integrity of an umpire.

 

I can't believe Serena has manage to turn herself into a victim on this. She's behaved deplorably over the years (I'll shove this ball down your throat springs to mind) and is lucky she hasn't been sanctioned more.

Saw a great bit on BBC Breakfast this morning. They had a male tennis expert, who was tennis correspondent for the Metro, and a feminism activist. They were very civil tbf and didn't shout at each other, but whilst he stood there citing facts and using his knowledge of Ramos' past behavior and how he'd treat male players the in the same way in the past, she just kept going on about how Serena had been through a lot and this was clearly sexist behavior by Ramos. I know who's opinion I'd rather listen to. She doesn't know anything about Ramos, what he's done in the past, so how can she accuse him of sexism?

[Guest MattP]

1 minute ago, Facecloth said:

Saw a great bit on BBC Breakfast this morning. They had a male tennis expert, who was tennis correspondent for the Metro, and a feminism activist. They were very civil tbf and didn't shout at each other, but whilst he stood there citing facts and using his knowledge of Ramos' past behavior and how he'd treat male players the in the same way in the past, she just kept going on about how Serena had been through a lot and this was clearly sexist behavior by Ramos. I know who's opinion I'd rather listen to. She doesn't know anything about Ramos, what he's done in the past, so how can she accuse him of sexism?

Because unfortunately that's now what these people do.

 

If a man corrects a woman he's mainsplaining, now if a man disciplines a woman for breaking the rules he's sexist. No idea how it managed to get to this stage but it has.

[purpleronnie]

17 minutes ago, MattP said:

Where is the evidence for this? It keeps being said.

 

I've seen male players docked games numerous times on the challenger tour, I think Isner even lost a match a few years ago. Nalbandian was disqualified outright at Queens, McEnroe was defaulted at the Aussie Open.

 

I've seen Novak and Rafa have some rants on court but never for ten minutes during a game whilst questioning and insulting the integrity of an umpire.

 

I can't believe Serena has manage to turn herself into a victim on this. She's behaved deplorably over the years (I'll shove this ball down your throat springs to mind) and is lucky she hasn't been sanctioned more.

I'd imagine its nothing to do with male players being punished but the amount of times they're not punished.

[Guest MattP]

Just now, purpleronnie said:

I'd imagine its nothing to do with male players being punished but the amount of times they're not punished.

So which male player behaved like Serena then the other night and wasn't punished? 

 

As @Facecloth mentioned a tennis expert can pull up facts to show it's nonsense. 

[purpleronnie]

11 minutes ago, MattP said:

So which male player behaved like Serena then the other night and wasn't punished? 

 

As @Facecloth mentioned a tennis expert can pull up facts to show it's nonsense. 

There's clearly two discussions, one is whether serena was ill treated in the final, the other is a more general question of whether women and men are treated differently in matches.

Edited 10 September 2018 by purpleronnie

[Guest MattP]

13 minutes ago, purpleronnie said:

There's clearly two discussions, one is whether serena was ill treated in the final, the other is a more general question of whether women and men are treated differently in matches.

Here's a few examples if Ramos being sexist to the fellas...

 

http://news.sky.com/story/serena-williams-isnt-the-first-tennis-player-umpire-carlos-ramos-has-upset-11494215

 

How do you think a male player would have been treated had he threatened to ram a tennis ball down a female officials throat? She's actually been treated very leniantly over the years because of her profile.

Edited 10 September 2018 by MattP

[Facecloth]

51 minutes ago, MattP said:

So which male player behaved like Serena then the other night and wasn't punished? 

 

As @Facecloth mentioned a tennis expert can pull up facts to show it's nonsense. 

Jared Donaldson had a 10 minute row with an umpire, bit his was his first offence of the match and he was sanctioned accordingly with a warning and fine. Denis Shapovalov was fined nearly $10k for accidentally hitting the umpire in the face when he whacked the ball in anger after losing a game. Men aren't immune to punishment, the difference was, these were isolated incidents, one offs in that match, and after that calmed down. Serena, was warned, and warned and the had the rant, hence why she was punished further.

 

Come to think of it I think Shapovalov was disqualified on the spot as well.

Edited 10 September 2018 by Facecloth

[Izzy]

And a huge $13k fine for Serena. That’ll really hurt her bank balance 

[Nick]

51 minutes ago, MattP said:

Because unfortunately that's now what these people do.

 

If a man corrects a woman he's mainsplaining, now if a man disciplines a woman for breaking the rules he's sexist. No idea how it managed to get to this stage but it has.

The world according to MattP! ? 

 

Fascinating but completely alien to me and not at all representative of anything I’ve witnessed.

 

You’re always talking about how you find it funny that people are offended and outraged by issues, it’s kinda weird that you are so threatened by issues like this and make such ridiculous sweeping statements! No offence mate but “You Can Not Be Serious!”

[Samilktray]

1 minute ago, Swan Lesta said:

The world according to MattP! ? 

 

Fascinating but completely alien to me and not at all representative of anything I’ve witnessed.

 

You’re always talking about how you find it funny that people are offended and outraged by issues, it’s kinda weird that you are so threatened by issues like this and make such ridiculous sweeping statements! No offence mate but “You Can Not Be Serious!”

Black AND female 

[Guest MattP]

5 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

The world according to MattP! ? 

 

Fascinating but completely alien to me and not at all representative of anything I’ve witnessed.

 

You’re always talking about how you find it funny that people are offended and outraged by issues, it’s kinda weird that you are so threatened by issues like this and make such ridiculous sweeping statements! No offence mate but “You Can Not Be Serious!”

This is a bit silly, no one is threatened by this, all I asked you (and PR) for was any actual evidence she was being treated differently to male players, still as of yet no one has given a single example. 

 

There isn't any so we've had to resort to this line of attack. The quest for victimhood is one of the strangest things going. (That's certainly not race or gender based either as white men are just as culpable in seeking it)

Edited 10 September 2018 by MattP

[Facecloth]

12 minutes ago, MattP said:

This is a bit silly, no one is threatened by this, all I asked you (and PR) for was any actual evidence she was being treated differently to male players, still as of yet no one has given a single example. 

 

There isn't any so we've had to resort to this line of attack. The quest for victimhood is one of the strangest things going. (That's certainly not race or gender based either as white men are just as culpable in seeking it)

Whilst you've posted an article with numerous occasions where there same umpire has sanctioned male players.

[Guest MattP]

3 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Whilst you've posted an article with numerous occasions where there same umpire has sanctioned male players.

I've just watched the interview you mentioned as well from the BBC, the feminist didn't have a single piece of evidence, a single idea about tennis or a single piece of knowledge about Williams or Ramos yet still thought she could go H2H with a tennis journalist on the subject, that's says it all about her and how she believes her cause can never be wrong.

Edited 10 September 2018 by MattP

[AKCJ]

31 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

And a huge $13k fine for Serena. That’ll really hurt her bank balance 

It's a joke.

 

I don't know or follow tennis much but what sort of message is that?

 

Behaviour like that should result in a much sterner punishment. That's just 0.9% of her earnings.