Legalise cannabis?

[Webbo]

Just now, Vacamion said:

 

If I grew it in my house or garden, for purely personal use, pretty sure the agents of the State would take an interest.

They might confiscate your plants, I doubt they'd lock you up.

[Innovindil]

4 minutes ago, Webbo said:

We don't though, do we? The police hardly ever lock up users.

It's not just about locking up. How much money do you think it costs cautioning tens of thousands of users every year. 

[Webbo]

4 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

It's not just about locking up. How much money do you think it costs cautioning tens of thousands of users every year. 

You could make that argument about anything. Let's legalise burglary to save the police from having to investigate it. 

[Vacamion]

6 minutes ago, Webbo said:

They might confiscate your plants, I doubt they'd lock you up.

 

Depending on the yield of the plants, I would be subject to confiscation, caution, community order fine or incarceration.

 

Try going for a job or even applying for insurance or a mortgage with any of that stuff in the background.

 

The bottom line is that the might of the State wants to intervene in the matter of a person growing a plant for their own use.

 

It’s Nanny State control and it is wrong.

 

 

[Vacamion]

4 minutes ago, Webbo said:

You could make that argument about anything. Let's legalise burglary to save the police from having to investigate it. 

 

Burglary directly harms others.

 

You have not demonstrated with any evidence that adults using cannabis does.

 

 

[Bellend Sebastian]

14 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Because the state has to pick up the tab to treat the consequences.

This comes back to the old question, that I don't think anybody can answer with any degree of certainty, is whether those consequences are being lessened or exacerbated by current policy.

 

I lean towards the latter; I don't think the legality or otherwise plays any part whatsoever in potential users' decision making processes. Once upon a time it might have made you exercise some care over how you got hold of it, and not be blatant about how and where you consume it, but that seems to have gone out the window now.

 

I think it needs controlling, but in a different way.  I'm not cool with the blokes openly smoking it walking through a busy city centre on a Monday lunchtime, or it wafting into my garden on a summer's evening because the guy a few doors down likes to sit outside and have a smoke before he retires to bed, but I've no issues with them wanting to smoke it. Keep it in your own home please, lads, or visit a licensed, regulated premises to do it that only exists in my mind at present.

 

The current situation feels like the worst of everything. The antisocial aspect on full view, a massive criminal operation making £££££££s, and no control or management over consumption or what people are actually taking.

 

For those like Webbo, who are pretty clearly against legalisation, is there anything you think could or should change about legislation around this? That's assuming that you don't think the current situation is working just fine (which would be a bold position although one you're obviously entitled to have)

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, Vacamion said:

 

Depending on the yield of the plants, I would be subject to confiscation, caution, community order fine or incarceration.

 

Try going for a job or even applying for insurance or a mortgage with any of that stuff in the background.

 

The bottom line is that the might of the State wants to intervene in the matter of a person growing a plant for their own use.

 

It’s Nanny State control and it is wrong.

 

 

I'm certainly all in favour of small govt and less interference, but in this case I disagree with you. 

[Innovindil]

3 minutes ago, Webbo said:

You could make that argument about anything. Let's legalise burglary to save the police from having to investigate it. 

A strawman, and utterly irrelevant to the topic at hand. 

 

Comparing cannabis use to burglary is like comparing murder to fly tipping. 

 

You brought up a treatment cost argument, not me. 

 

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, Vacamion said:

 

Burglary directly harms others.

 

You have not demonstrated with any evidence that adults using cannabis does.

 

 

I could point out a lot of anecdotal evidence that most if not all of the American school shooters were heavy users, the same with suicide terrorists in Europe. Whether it turns you psychotic or just lowers inhibitions doesn't really matter.

 

I have a nephew who is a regular user who suffers from depression and panic attacks and I've heard similar stories from others. You'll say that's not evidence but I don't work at a university and nobody is giving me a grant to prove it.

 

Please take my word for it when I say I'm against drugs because I genuinely believe they are harmful, nothing to do with prudishness or religion. 

[Vacamion]

Just now, Webbo said:

I could point out a lot of anecdotal evidence that most if not all of the American school shooters were heavy users, the same with suicide terrorists in Europe. Whether it turns you psychotic or just lowers inhibitions doesn't really matter.

 

I have a nephew who is a regular user who suffers from depression and panic attacks and I've heard similar stories from others. You'll say that's not evidence but I don't work at a university and nobody is giving me a grant to prove it.

 

Please take my word for it when I say I'm against drugs because I genuinely believe they are harmful, nothing to do with prudishness or religion. 

 

And I have anecdotal evidence of my own.  I know plenty people who used it recreationally for years with no discernible ill effect.

 

It’s pretty obvious we are not going to persuade each other.

 

But it’s been fun trying... 

[Webbo]

8 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

This comes back to the old question, that I don't think anybody can answer with any degree of certainty, is whether those consequences are being lessened or exacerbated by current policy.

 

I lean towards the latter; I don't think the legality or otherwise plays any part whatsoever in potential users' decision making processes. Once upon a time it might have made you exercise some care over how you got hold of it, and not be blatant about how and where you consume it, but that seems to have gone out the window now.

 

I think it needs controlling, but in a different way.  I'm not cool with the blokes openly smoking it walking through a busy city centre on a Monday lunchtime, or it wafting into my garden on a summer's evening because the guy a few doors down likes to sit outside and have a smoke before he retires to bed, but I've no issues with them wanting to smoke it. Keep it in your own home please, lads, or visit a licensed, regulated premises to do it that only exists in my mind at present.

 

The current situation feels like the worst of everything. The antisocial aspect on full view, a massive criminal operation making £££££££s, and no control or management over consumption or what people are actually taking.

 

For those like Webbo, who are pretty clearly against legalisation, is there anything you think could or should change about legislation around this? That's assuming that you don't think the current situation is working just fine (which would be a bold position although one you're obviously entitled to have)

I'll admit I'm not 100% sure I'm right. I do actually have sympathy for the libertarian argument but I think that the risks of legalising is worse than the current situation.

[Webbo]

2 minutes ago, Vacamion said:

 

And I have anecdotal evidence of my own.  I know plenty people who used it recreationally for years with no discernible ill effect.

 

It’s pretty obvious we are not going to persuade each other.

 

But it’s been fun trying... 

I'm a bolshy gobshite and I enjoy arguing  , please don't take any of this personally. I totally understand your argument.

[Guest Foxin_mad]

My view is that if the care of people is already costing us (I haven't seen hug evidence to support this), then we should get the tax from it and invest in the NHS. I heard that regulation, taxation and legal trade could raise £1billion for the economy.

 

Given how widespread use already appears to be. I am struggling to see what real difference it will make except for it being more regulated and potentially safer. It may potentially reduce the impact of gangs currently selling this too.

 

I personally feel that now is the time to look at radical new ways of raising tax.

[Vacamion]

 

When I used to smoke marijuana regularly, the stuff I bought got stronger and stronger between the late 90s and the early 2010s.

 

It got to the stage where all I wanted a mild hazy relaxing giggle, but ended up with super-cheese, with nicknames like the strains mentioned in the Ted movies.

 

People I was smoking weed with were smoking similar stuff and occasionally one of them would end up with a massive "whitey", or crippling paranoia - both conditions were thankfully temporary.

 

This happened far, far more towards the end of my smoking "career" than it ever did back in the olden days.

 

As with alcohol, cannabis prohibition leads to illegal production at maximum potency, for maximum profit. 

 

Quality of product and the effect on the user doesn't come into it.  Sellers bulk up baggies with Spice and other awful stuff.

 

An end to prohibition would allow "craft weed" to be sold, quality controlled and monitored.

 

Back to mellow experiences, not headbanging super-strains.

 

Brown ale, instead of absinthe.

 

That has to be a good thing, doesn't it?

 

Not if you are HM Government, apparently...

[Suzie the Fox]

5 hours ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

Sick of damn hippies like William Hague telling us what to do.

 

Get a shower and a job, Hague!!! And a haircut!!!

 

But at least he's acknowledging the current rules, from whatever angle you look at them, don't work. In fact, it's difficult to know what the point of them is these days. When you have people openly smoking it in busy public places (which I don't endorse, by the way) it's safe to say any deterrence value has pretty much gone

 

 

 

Isn't he bald? 

[Vacamion]

 

I am SHOCKED, shocked I tells ya, that the Vicar's daughter in No 10 has never partaken:

 

 

My follow-up question would be whether she has ever dropped any ecky or snorted any gack.

 

[Bellend Sebastian]

23 minutes ago, Suzie the Fox said:

Isn't he bald? 

Yes, since the age of about 15

[Bellend Sebastian]

Something I hadn't picked up on in what Hague uttered yesterday from beneath his thick, lustrous head of golden hair, was that it was his understanding that young people find cannabis easier to buy than alcohol and tobacco, which I'm not surprised at in the least. Justin Trudeau has also cited the ease of which young people can get hold of it as a reason for Canada's new legalisation.

 

I've also agree with Hague's assertion that it undermines respect for the law if you have laws that are widely ignored and completely impractical to enforce

 

 

[ozleicester]

Fkin nanny state Tories trying to run other's lives. 

Canada has legalised now as well.

[simFox]

I work for a global company, we have zero tolerance on drugs and alcohol. That doesn't mean to say you can't drink so I wonder how this will affect our compulsory drugs testing. Especially as Marijuana can be detected long after it's affects have worn off.

[Innovindil]

Anyone know how much engineers get paid in Canada? 

[Carl the Llama]

Legalise it, age restrict it, and crack down hard on anybody caught selling to/buying for kids.  Take that money away from the black market and put it to good use funding public services.  Make it an offence to smoke in public areas so you don't get obnoxious potheads everywhere.  And let grandma stick some purple haze in among her roses to add a bit more variety and  a e s t h e t i c  to her foliage and become favourite grandparent (to the of-age grandchildren).  There's so many wins to the idea it would be daft not to.

[lgfualol]

Really don't understand why the UK are being jabronis about this. Bunch of close-minded bores. 

[Vacamion]

Sense:

 

Check out @JustinTrudeau’s Tweet:

 

 

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, Vacamion said:

Sense:

 

Check out @JustinTrudeau’s Tweet:

 

 

How will it be harder for kids to get marijuana after its legalised?