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Brown Fox

Another Shooting in the US

By Brown Fox, in General Chat

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Jaspa

Jaspa

Posted
Posted

Have you seen this one? They shot the dude 40 odd times! He looks like he was walking away aswell.

I haven't seen that before

But I remember one a few years ago where some black dude got shot over 50 times on his stag night , whilst in a taxi

He was unarmed

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BoneDog

BoneDog

Posted
Posted

I haven't seen that before

But I remember one a few years ago where some black dude got shot over 50 times on his stag night , whilst in a taxi

He was unarmed

There are alot of trigger happy folks in the US on both sides of the law! A woman got shot by a policeman in her own back yard the other day. He said he shot her because she 'startled him'! Shot her reet through the tit and out the arm so I hear.

If I lived there though I wouldn't want to give up my guns in this day and age. I'd have at least five weapons and I'd also bury some more all around the state for when the country goes berserk! Tennis bats will be of no use.

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Jordan

Jordan

Posted
Posted

There are alot of trigger happy folks in the US on both sides of the law! A woman got shot by a policeman in her own back yard the other day. He said he shot her because she 'startled him'! Shot her reet through the tit and out the arm so I hear.

If I lived there though I wouldn't want to give up my guns in this day and age. I'd have at least five weapons and I'd also bury some more all around the state for when the country goes berserk! Tennis bats will be of no use.

Wow. I'd hope the authorities continue to stay well-armed to protect society from wack jobs like you.

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BoneDog

BoneDog

Posted
Posted

Wow. I'd hope the authorities continue to stay well-armed to protect society from wack jobs like you.

What?! You're shocked that someone would buy guns to protect their home if they lived in the US?

You must be blind to the evidence that suggests it would be a good idea.

The authorities will stay well armed, so don't worry. After seeing some of the recent videos I think that many of them need to go on some serious training courses though. It's not safe for them to carry guns. They are a liability and tarnish the 'freedom' banner that the US likes to wave.

I still can't believe that all 9 of the innocent bystanders who were shot in NY were shot by police! Where did they do their firearms training for crying out loud?

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Smudge

Smudge

Posted
Posted (edited)

What?! You're shocked that someone would buy guns to protect their home if they lived in the US?

You must be blind to the evidence that suggests it would be a good idea.

The authorities will stay well armed, so don't worry. After seeing some of the recent videos I think that many of them need to go on some serious training courses though. It's not safe for them to carry guns. They are a liability and tarnish the 'freedom' banner that the US likes to wave.

I still can't believe that all 9 of the innocent bystanders who were shot in NY were shot by police! Where did they do their firearms training for crying out loud?

Many American's buy guns to protect themselves from criminals. I only know of one or two who actually conceal weapons on their body while out and about. Those who own guns in the main keep them at home for defense.

Reading the report, the police didn't aim and shoot at the 9 people, they were injured by fragments or objects ricocheting from the shots fired at the gunman. It's possible these cops have never shot anyone before. The adrenaline is running and you are facing a killer with a gun in his hand, I doubt any are aiming to make sure they don't get a rebound and hurt a bystander. They are doing one thing and that is to avoid being another victim.

Edited by Smudge
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BoneDog

BoneDog

Posted
Posted

Many American's buy guns to protect themselves from criminals. I only know of one or two who actually conceal weapons on their body while out and about. Those who own guns in the main keep them at home for defense.

Yes that's what I meant by saying that I wouldn't give up my guns if I lived there. I'd want them to protect my home and family in case of some event involving a crazy citizen or two. I didn't mean I'd stash guns to fight police with or anything of that sort.

And, this is to Jordan, I said the 'burying guns around the state' part as sort of a joke regarding my conspiracy side that thinks there will be some sort of a civil war type thing over there when the government tries to take peoples guns away. In that situation a gun or two would come in handy while you're trying to wait it out!

Reading the report, the police didn't aim and shoot at the 9 people, they were injured by fragments or objects ricocheting from the shots fired at the gunman. It's possible these cops have never shot anyone before. The adrenaline is running and you are facing a killer with a gun in his hand, I doubt any are aiming to make sure they don't get a rebound and hurt a bystander. They are doing one thing and that is to avoid being another victim.

Ah, I assumed that they had just directly shot ten different people while only trying to drop one man! I wasn't sure if they were just saying it was 'ricochets' to try and get the police out of trouble or not. Nine different people is alot of ricochets! There did seem to be alot of folk around though, and all in a close proximity.

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Captain...

Captain...

Posted
Posted

Many American's buy guns to protect themselves from criminals. I only know of one or two who actually conceal weapons on their body while out and about. Those who own guns in the main keep them at home for defense.

Reading the report, the police didn't aim and shoot at the 9 people, they were injured by fragments or objects ricocheting from the shots fired at the gunman. It's possible these cops have never shot anyone before. The adrenaline is running and you are facing a killer with a gun in his hand, I doubt any are aiming to make sure they don't get a rebound and hurt a bystander. They are doing one thing and that is to avoid being another victim.

I'm sorry, but that is bollocks. The police's job is not to ensure they are not another victim, it is to protect the public. if they panic and start firing Willy nilly injuring the public in an attempt to save their own skin they are not doing their job properly.

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Smudge

Smudge

Posted
Posted

I'm sorry, but that is bollocks. The police's job is not to ensure they are not another victim, it is to protect the public. if they panic and start firing Willy nilly injuring the public in an attempt to save their own skin they are not doing their job properly.

I didn't say what should have happened, I read the BBC report and interpreted what probably might have happened.

Now, whether it was possible to kill the guy without collateral damage is a impossible to say since I wasn't there and if I was, I'd be running in the other direction.

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Jordan

Jordan

Posted
Posted (edited)

What?! You're shocked that someone would buy guns to protect their home if they lived in the US?

My comment was not related to that.

You must be blind to the evidence that suggests it would be a good idea.

There is as much evidence that suggests the liabilities of defensive gun ownership far outweigh its benefits. However, defensive gun ownership studies are often problematic because this is a very nuanced issue, and studies on both sides of the issue are often influenced greatly by special interest groups.

The authorities will stay well armed, so don't worry. After seeing some of the recent videos I think that many of them need to go on some serious training courses though. It's not safe for them to carry guns. They are a liability and tarnish the 'freedom' banner that the US likes to wave.

I still can't believe that all 9 of the innocent bystanders who were shot in NY were shot by police! Where did they do their firearms training for crying out loud?

There are cases when lethal force is used unnecessary, and such tragedies are inexcusable. But American civilians, whether they are armed or not, are much more likely to be shot by a perp than by a cop, and more lives are saved by armed police officers confronting armed and dangerous criminals than they would be if our police weren't armed.

Police officers do receive plenty of firearms training in the academy (and every cop I know is an excellent shot). and many practice regularly.

It is very rare that police discharge their weapons (there are over 22,000 patrol officers in the NYPD, but there were only 92 instances in 2010 of officers firing their guns). Most cops never fire their weapons on the line of duty or go years without doing so (one of the officers involved in the ESB shooting had never fired his gun on duty).

Police shootings are, when considering the amount of gun crime that happens in this country, relatively rare events, but they receive lots of attention (understandable--especially the few cases where lethal force was unjustifiable).

As I see it, the biggest risks that can elevate police incidents to a level of excessive force are the stress, emotion and fear in a threatening situation (real or perceived). Officers tend to know how to handle a gun--usually much better than most armed civilians--but psychological factors are much harder to control.

The risks are apparent on both sides of the badge. Many incidents are also escalated when people disobey simple police commands, run from the cops, make a motion to grab a concealed weapon (or move in a manner similarly enough to that to alarm police), and/or turn away to hide themselves from retrieving a weapon. A sober, reasonable person may understand to cooperate with police, but an agitated, mentally disturbed or intoxicated person may either behave menacingly or erratically.

As for the "collateral damage" in the ESB shooting, the cops absolutely had to approach the suspect because he had already murdered someone in a large crowd in broad daylight--they could not take the risk that he would do so again before being approached and this had nothing to do with not wanting to be a statistic.

The guy drew his gun to the cops at close range, so the officers had no choice but to go into shoot-to-kill mode. It is also hard to see from the video, but it looks like the officers fired several rounds into the suspect's body before he went down, so they had to keep firing until they had a confirmed kill--hence 16 rounds being fired at close range). And while I am not a ballistics expert, just because 9 civilians were injured does not mean automatically that 9 shots were missed.

Edited by Jordan
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purpleronnie

purpleronnie

Posted
Posted

Just wondering but to those who live in America, what are your views on gun ownership?

What you you think?

Like I've said before you have to look at it through American eyes, England doesn't have any culture of gun ownership, guns are seen by the majority in england as something to be scared of...its not like that in America...guns are part of life, used as a hobby, as a right, they grow up with them around....understanding that the vast majority of gun owners are law abiding and feel their right shouldnt be taken away because of criminals..

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Captain...

Captain...

Posted
Posted (edited)

What you you think?

Like I've said before you have to look at it through American eyes, England doesn't have any culture of gun ownership, guns are seen by the majority in england as something to be scared of...its not like that in America...guns are part of life, used as a hobby, as a right, they grow up with them around....understanding that the vast majority of gun owners are law abiding and feel their right shouldnt be taken away because of criminals..

Out of interest what do you think of the dangerous dogs act? When pitbulls became illegal to own people had their pets taken away, even if they had done nothing wrong, because of the risk they posed. A gun in safe hands is very unlikely to end up killing someone likewise a dog with caring loving owners is almost definitely not going to attack someone but the fact irresponsible people have the same access spoilt it for everyone.

Secondly this not just a case of banning guns, there seems to be very little control it restrictions in selling guns hand guns which serve little purpose other than killing a human being and certain types of bullets which are designed to cause more damage to a human being. Fine you have the right to own gun for hunting purposes, but to sell guns designed specifically to use on humans I disagree with, I also don't think guns should be treated like any other commodity, such as special offers or as prizes.

There are regular incidents with guns that could have easily been prevented by stricter regulations, what good is protecting a freedom or a right that costs people their lives.

Edited by Captain Shrapnel
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purpleronnie

purpleronnie

Posted
Posted

Out of interest what do you think of the dangerous dogs act? When pitbulls became illegal to own people had their pets taken away, even if they had done nothing wrong, because of the risk they posed. A gun in safe hands is very unlikely to end up killing someone likewise a dog with caring loving owners is almost definitely not going to attack someone but the fact irresponsible people have the same access spoilt it for everyone.

Secondly this not just a case of banning guns, there seems to be very little control it restrictions in selling guns hand guns which serve little purpose other than killing a human being and certain types of bullets which are designed to cause more damage to a human being. Fine you have the right to own gun for hunting purposes, but to sell guns designed specifically to use on humans I disagree with, I also don't think guns should be treated like any other commodity, such as special offers or as prizes.

There are regular incidents with guns that could have easily been prevented by stricter regulations, what good is protecting a freedom or a right that costs people their lives.

I have no problem with more restrictions on gun's such as the types of bullets you mentioned....its just the british attitude towards american gun ownership riles me slightly...they seem very blinkered in their view and its mainly based on misunderstandings and rarely do they put themselves in american shoes....and try and see it from another viewpoint.

As for your point about the dangerous dog act, it doesnt seem a fair comparison, a dog is an animal with instincts, a gun is a piece of plastic.

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Captain...

Captain...

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Posted

I have no problem with more restrictions on gun's such as the types of bullets you mentioned....its just the british attitude towards american gun ownership riles me slightly...they seem very blinkered in their view and its mainly based on misunderstandings and rarely do they put themselves in american shoes....and try and see it from another viewpoint.

As for your point about the dangerous dog act, it doesnt seem a fair comparison, a dog is an animal with instincts, a gun is a piece of plastic.

It wasn't really supposed to be comparison or trying to catch you out, it was more that what you said reminded me of it. To make the comparison though whilst the gun is inanimate it is fired by an animal with instincts and emotions, and as much as we like to believe we are in control of those emotions we aren't always.

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Haydos

Haydos

Posted
Posted

I have no problem with more restrictions on gun's such as the types of bullets you mentioned....its just the british attitude towards american gun ownership riles me slightly.

Are you surprised though with the amount of shootings that happen in the US? You're turning a blind eye if you don't think there's a major problem IMO. You can say 'the majority' of people are responsible but the fact of the matter is that there are plenty who aren't, who end up ruining peoples lives.

They really shouldn't be as accessible as they are. I can't believe how easy it is to buy a gun over there. Can you buy handguns/pistols over the counter?

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purpleronnie

purpleronnie

Posted
Posted (edited)

Are you surprised though with the amount of shootings that happen in the US? You're turning a blind eye if you don't think there's a major problem IMO. You can say 'the majority' of people are responsible but the fact of the matter is that there are plenty who aren't, who end up ruining peoples lives.

They really shouldn't be as accessible as they are. I can't believe how easy it is to buy a gun over there. Can you buy handguns/pistols over the counter?

Sure theres a problem, and like I said previously I do believe there should be more restictions, its just the idea some brits have towards guns and seem to want everyone to think the same. As for your question yes you can buy them over the counter but I have little knowledge of the types of processes you need to quire guns, it varies from state to state...as far as I'm aware you need to fill out paperwork with ID, there can be background checks, some have waiting periods etc...

Not sure if this is true but I believe britain had similiar gun laws to the US back in the day, but even then crimes committed with guns in britain were still tiny compared to the US.

Edited by purpleronnie
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