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Sir Fynwy

Clarke Carlisle

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Mental illness is totally misunderstood by lots of people, your post is evidence of this.

 

He's not necessarily being ignorant. He's said that someone not thinking rationally has made a selfish decision. It doesn't make a rational Clarke Carlisle a selfish person, and doesn't disregard the effects of the condition. But mental and personality disorders and other forms of illness (alcoholism for instance) play a role in a great deal of crime, and while it can help explain the crime it rarely excuses it.

 

Speaking from my close-up experience of the depressed, it is rarely helpful for a depressed person to feel that they have an excuse to behave however they please. And they rarely do.

 

If this really was a suicide attempt it's still fair to say that it's selfish, and not something which a lot of other seriously depressed people would ever do, so long as we remember that at the same time it doesn't prove that the 'victim' is necessarily a selfish or a bad person.

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It appears Clark was hit by a lorry on a busy road , poor guy in a bad way

Had a long standing depression type illness which may or may not been an underlying part of this tragedy

Hope he pulls through he had a lot to offer the game and seemed a very good man

Thoughts and prayers to his family

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I'm not suggesting there are rights or wrongs in this, but I don't feel your comments are particularly helpful. Its all too easy and comfortable to criticize people for attempting suicide.

There certainly aren't rights or wrongs and depression is clearly a horrible illness but in my opinion it doesn't mean he can seriously damage someone else's by taking his own.

I'm not suggesting there are rights or wrongs in this, but I don't feel your comments are particularly helpful. Its all too easy and comfortable to criticize people for attempting suicide.

There certainly aren't rights or wrongs and depression is clearly a horrible illness but in my opinion it doesn't mean he can seriously damage someone else's by taking his own.
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some of the ignorance on here about mental illness isn't surprising me , I'm not having a go , all I'm saying is as a society we still have a HUGE leap to make in raising awareness of this illness that nearly everyone on here will be effected by depression either personally or a closed loved one

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He's not necessarily being ignorant. He's said that someone not thinking rationally has made a selfish decision. It doesn't make a rational Clarke Carlisle a selfish person, and doesn't disregard the effects of the condition. But mental and personality disorders and other forms of illness (alcoholism for instance) play a role in a great deal of crime, and while it can help explain the crime it rarely excuses it.

 

Speaking from my close-up experience of the depressed, it is rarely helpful for a depressed person to feel that they have an excuse to behave however they please. And they rarely do.

 

If this really was a suicide attempt it's still fair to say that it's selfish, and not something which a lot of other seriously depressed people would ever do, so long as we remember that at the same time it doesn't prove that the 'victim' is necessarily a selfish or a bad person.

You make some fair points

Depression is not ‘logical’

If we’re being optimistic, it could be said that most of those describing suicide from depression as selfish are doing so from a position of ignorance. Perhaps they think that those with depression make some sort of table or chart with the pros and cons of suicide and, despite the pros being far more numerous, selfishly opt for suicide anyway?

This is, of course, nonsensical. One of the main problems with mental illness is that is prevents you from behaving or thinking “normally” (although what that means is a discussion for another time). A depression sufferer is not thinking like a non-sufferer in the same way that someone who’s drowning is not “breathing air” like a person on land is. The situation is different. From the sufferers perspective, their self-worth may be so low, their outlook so bleak, that their families/friends/fans would be a lot better off without them in the world, ergo their suicide is actually intended as an act of generosity? Some might find such a conclusion an offensive assumption, but it is no more so than accusations of selfishness.

The “selfish” accusation also often implies that there are other options the sufferer has, but has chosen suicide. Or that it’s the “easy way out”. There are many ways to describe the sort of suffering that overrides a survival instinct that has evolved over millions of years, but “easy” isn’t an obvious one to go for. Perhaps none of it makes sense from a logical perspective, but insisting on logical thinking from someone in the grips of a mental illness is like insisting that someone with a broken leg walks normally; logically, you shouldn’t do that.

Stephen Fry, in his interview with Richard Herring, had a brilliant explanation about how depression doesn’t make you think logically, or automatically confide in friends and family.

Accusations of selfishness are themselves selfish?

Say people don’t agree with any of the above, they still maintain that for someone with a successful career and family to commit suicide is selfish. Fine. THIER opinion and entitled to have it, however much we may disagree.

But why would people want to publicly declare that the recently deceased or injured is selfish? Especially when the news has only just broken, and people are clearly sad about the whole thing? Why is getting in to criticise the deceased when they’ve only just passed so important to people ? What service are they providing by doing so, what makes them so justified in throwing accusations of selfishness around?

Do people think that depression is “fashionable?” And by criticising the sufferers they can deter others from “joining in”? Granted, we hear more about depression than we used to these days, but then we know what it is now. We see a lot more photos from Mars these days, because we have the means of doing so now, not because it’s suddenly trendy.

Perhaps they are trying to deter anyone else who might read THIER views from considering suicide themselves? Given that statistics suggest that one in four people suffer some sort of mental health problem, this isn’t that unlikely an occurrence. But if someone is genuinely depressed and feels their life is worthless, seeing that others consider their feeling selfish can surely only emphasise their own self-loathing and bleakness? It suggests that people will hate them even in death.

Maybe people know some people who have “attempted” suicide purely for attention? Fair enough; a debatable conclusion, but even if that's the case so what? Surely someone who succeeds at committing suicide is a genuine sufferer who deserves our sympathy?

Perhaps people feel that those expressing sorrow and sadness are wrong and you need to show them that you know better, no matter how upsetting they may find it? And this is unselfish behaviour how, exactly?

A brilliant but tortured individual has it's arrears tried to take his own life, and this is a tragedy. But levelling ignorant accusations of selfishness certainly won’t prevent this from happening again. People should never be made to feel worse for suffering from something beyond their control.

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He has a choice assuming he is thinking rationally but he wasn't

I have a great deal of sympathy for anyone that suffers with depression.

 

Nethertheless if this leads someone to do something that has a severe consequence on you or your close family I extremely doubt most people here would see them as completely innocent, that's all I mean.

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Suicide attempt?

Really...God thats awful.

We had a lad at work a couple of months ago who threw himself under a train at Narboro somewhere.

he had 2 kids and was only 30 odd...no had had un inkling what was going on...imagine the effects for the family left behind...its fooking tragic...

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Hope everyone comes out of this ok.

 

 

 
Clarke Carlisle in hospital after collision with lorry

Television pundit and former footballer Clarke Carlisle, 35, is in hospital with serious injuries after being involved in a collision with a lorry.

The cause of the accident on the A64 near York is not yet known.

Carlisle, a former Professional Footballers' Association chairman, was airlifted to Leeds General Infirmary.

A PFA statement read: "Everyone is keeping Clarke in their prayers and thoughts. We are offering our full help and support to him and his family."

Clarke's injuries are not life-threatening, the BBC understands,

 

 

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the lorry driver will never get over this. He will always feel like its his fault. I feel for him.

 

 

How do you know this? Do you know the lorry driver personally? 

 

There's no where in the news that says it could be suicide. Where does it even say he was a pedestrian? Could he not have collided in his car?

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