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Sir Fynwy

Clarke Carlisle

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Take it you've never suffered with depression then? Trust me, it was never my mentality to want to take 100mg of sertraline every day. Depression is an illness and its ignorant twats like you that make it harder for people to open up about it.

In some sense I do agree suicide is selfish but some people obviously feel like they have no other choice.

Strokes has said that he suffered from it when he was younger, he then went on to explain why he holds his views - it's in the rest of the thread.
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While I agree it is not selfish to commit suicide as it is more likely that the suicidant is not in the right frame of the mind but if the intention is to make the world a better place and that we all are better off without the suicidant then surely he/she would rather to commit suicide in alternative methods that do not affect others which was the point of the suicide?

 

If the sufferer is able to decide on a suicide and to plan it then are they capable of choosing the method and to consider all factors associated with it? That is the question I am asking. 

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I make no apologies for my attitude, and wouldn't ask for your sympathy either. It's my belief that the condition is born out of selfish, attention seeking people, and that won't change from a discussion here. I have seen the destruction it causes and I know where it all stems from.

I won't take any further in the discussion as I am not really helping the spirit of it but I will say to all you guys and gals that have had, do have or may have in the future, depression. Try and look at what affect you are having on other people around you, kids, parents, grandparents or close friends all get affected not just you!

 

I've known a number of people close to me suffer from depression - selfish and attention-seeking are probably two of the descriptions that are least likely to be used for any of these people in fact quite the opposite. Thankfully they have all come out the other side although there have been a few relapses, I don't believe it can ever be totally eradicated.

 

I'm sorry if you had an experience which made you feel you could generalise in this way with such strong belief, but you're wrong and out or order to state this while ignoring other people who are telling you about their experiences. You are allowed to listen, understand and take on board other people's points of view rather than just dwell on your own experience.

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Wish him well.

 

A drink driver, risking the lives of countless motorists (it's never anyone's 'first time' when they get caught) and also the lorry driver that has to cope mentally with hitting him?

 

Strange.

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A drink driver, risking the lives of countless motorists (it's never anyone's 'first time' when they get caught) and also the lorry driver that has to cope mentally with hitting him?

 

Strange.

A very select way to describe a man hounded with demons of mental illness.

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A very select way to describe a man hounded with demons of mental illness.

 

I wonder how much sympathy I'd get if I drink drive, crash, kill people and then say "Well I wasn't thinking straight"

 

You go to get help for yourself, not destroy the lives of those around you (and suicide does do that, too)

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I wonder how much sympathy I'd get if I drink drive, crash, kill people and then say "Well I wasn't thinking straight"

You go to get help for yourself, not destroy the lives of those around you (and suicide does do that, too)

And if the people around you don't believe you or care? Or just think that you're "crazy"?

I think you underestimate the stigma and and attitude many people still have towards mental illness in the UK. Not everyone has the same support structure available.

As much as such a suicide attempt causes trauma for other people, for it to get to that stage in the first place means someone has seriously overlooked the sufferer. I know many people on here don't like it, but oddly enough personal responsibility, while a good thing, isn't actually an absolute.

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But it doesn't give him the right to give whoever was driving the lorry a potential mental illness/physical injuries as a result of the crash does it? I'm sympathetic witg Carlisle with what he's suffering with, but only up to the point where he's involved another person in this situation.

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I don't think he'd have been thinking about the other consequences, sadly, which I would suggest is a sad and dangerous byproduct of mental illness (if of course it was a suicide attempt). It's horrible for all involved but personally I wouldn't want to blame Carlisle as I doubt such thoughts would enter someone's head when they are trying to end their life. 

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  • 1 month later...

Very brave of him to talk about it publicly. I hope it helps him, and he is on the road to recovery.

I'm with Ralf Little. Whilst sympathetic to his condition there's no excuse for repeated drink driving and they should chuck the book at him.

There might be reasons, but there are no excuses.

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Ralf Little - http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1skfskk

 

 

 

First and foremost, and I should know this by now, twitter is not the place for this sort of thing, as it takes more than 140 characters to talk about anything seriously. So already I wish I hadn’t said anything, not because I regret the comment, but because the choice of forum was wrong and frankly understandable if people are riled up.

Next thing is, I don’t suddenly want to air a list of grievances that sound sensationalist and do some tabloid’s job for them. Clarke and I have history, that involves money, lies, on one notable occasion me being interrogated by the police over something I knew nothing about… and all sorts of other stuff.

Now, when it comes to mental illness, I understand it, I’ve lived around it, I’ve supported it, I fight against the stigmatization of it and so on. I think it’s a very real issue with a long road to go to combat it.

So that said, on to this case… It’s extremely difficult to watch someone repeatedly ruin other people’s lives, then explain it in such a way that makes them immune to criticism. And it keeps happening. It’s now reached a point where, as this proves, it’s like emotional touch paper. And sure, I’m not a professional expert on mental health, and no doubt, neither are you. But I know more about this particular case than you do just because you read about it in the Sun, or saw a documentary. 

There comes a point where it’s just frustrating to witness someone constantly hammering the pattern of destruction for those around – and I was once one of those around - only to see the destructive force make a moving and sincere apology… then do it again.

(On reflection, that’s the nature of addiction/illness, and I know that all too well, but as I say, a rash tweet and it’s not the place for it. )

I should also say that during the course of this twitter… whatever it is, Clarke has been in touch with a retrospective apology over things that went on a long time ago, and I think that has to be respected by all, myself included.

Anyway... You have to be in a dark place to attempt suicide, and only a fool would suggest otherwise. However, I do find myself thinking that when you’ve been driving drunk five (is it?) times, risking lives of countless other people, and even in your darkest hour still manage to involve a lorry driver who could have died himself, and now has to live with that trauma and memory every day fro the REST of his life… Personally my stores of empathy start to dry up after a while. 

Am I really that out of order for suggesting that’s not on? Do we repeatedly overlook reckless destruction of other lives beacause someone apologizes, again and again, and says it’s an illness? Isn't there a point where we can go, "enough is enough"?

I hate drink driving, I really do. I know victims of it, who have died, been paralysed, or lost loved ones, and I’ve watched this man get caught doing it several times then publicly forgiven, lauded, and handed a bloody good career! I’m sorry but that annoys me!

And I think that’s my overriding feeling. I don’t feel sad for Clarke any more, I was drained of that some time ago. Instead I feel sad, and maybe a little angry, for Gemma, and the kids, and the lorry driver, and the people who dived out of the way of the car all those years ago, and all the other people who have been ****ed over and over and over… you know who you are.

Of course I wish Clarke a strong recovery – and not just from the crash. It would be a better world if he and all other sufferers of such an insidious disease could find a way to fight the good fight. But when he does end up facing the drink driving charges, this time around, I hope, not least out of respect for the hundreds of drink driving victims who tweet me every year, they throw the book at him.

I don’t think that makes me a ****, or gobshite, or a willy puller, or any other delightful name some of you came up with, but hey it’s a free country. 

Though, as a final thought, I would say again, I’m a fool for forgetting that twitter is not, and never will be, the place for a comment like that. It’s too reductive and simplistic, and yes, without context, I can see it would seem insensitive and crass. Not my intention. 

I’m going to bed.
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So that said, on to this case… It’s extremely difficult to watch someone repeatedly ruin other people’s lives, then explain it in such a way that makes them immune to criticism. And it keeps happening.

 

Couldn't agree more. Feel for the poor lorry drivers and train drivers that end up hitting people. Must ruin their lives.

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He's been quick to sell his story and hide behind excuses to justify what he did.

I thought if you were depressed you wanted to be alone and away from the world, not on the front page of a national tabloid?

Then again, he could always go and have a drink, drive his car and ruin some innocent people's lives.

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