breadandcheese

No-one (bar the odd crackpot) is celebrating loss of Palestinian life. The reason people are failing to identify with Hamas is that they have shown themselves to be exactly what they said they were, Islamist mass murderers. For years it was said that their charter might say they want to murder Jews, but actually they're more pragmatic and it's only words. Well events on Saturday have shone a very horrible light. Hamas planned an operation with incredible meticulousness and precision with it's military aim of killing civilians. The death toll is now over a thousand and still rising, which is unfathomable for killing civilians in cold blooded murder. (Apologies, a Hamas spokesman on Sky News yesterday said they didn't kill any civilians). They broke every Geneva convention we hold dear, going door to door shooting families, raping, beheading, taking hostages back with them. It is what we read about from Medieval times. It is galling to see normal sensible people (not on here, around the world - such as unions, some politicians) expressing about how it's not for us to tell Palestinians how to resist or celebrating a blow to Israel. The comparison is if a general in the UK army had instructed soldiers to go door to door in Iraq or Afghanistan shooting families and taking hostages. We would be sickened to our very core that these were our troops and demanding arrests. Ultimately Israel and the world has realised that there is no going back to the status quo as before. This cannot be a military operation where Hamas stay in power, just like sensible people couldn't accept a Middle East where Isis governed large areas of land a few years back. It is very difficult and incredibly sad for innocent Palestinians, especially those who hate Hamas and are unable to do anything about it. But equally, any talk of sitting the sides down and talking peace rather than go to conflict is for the birds whilst Hamas remain in power. And I don't know how you remove Hamas, without a huge loss of life (would love to hear from any ex military who can advise on how it can be done). It is a depressing situation.

Don't get me wrong, Netanyahu is a c*nt but he didn't want this reaction and was not some political aim as part of a grand plan against the Palestinians. This was the biggest loss of Jewish life in a single day since the Holocaust. It is the biggest failure of Israeli intelligence since the Yom Kippur War. The first act of government is to protect its citizens. He failed. After the war finishes, his political career is over. And good riddance.

I think your historical revisionism is off. The UK may well have been a world power but judge it of it's time. As I said above, in 1948, the country still had rationing, was attempting to rebuild, massively in debt and helping rebuild the European countries. This was their focus, not what was a tiny piece of land in Middle East with no strategic benefit. The US was a global power but was looking at Russia in the beginning of the Cold War and looking at Japanese reconstruction (less Japan rebuild as a hostile entity). Ultimately, whilst it is shocking that 700,000 people were displaced in 1948 war, you can understand why the Western world and Russia didn't bat an eyelid as three years prior, they had seen far worse displacements within Europe and the Far East. So it wouldn't have registered as anything more than a footnote. That's not to say the world is insensitive but the historical context that the West and Russia, (China as well) had just lived through and what would have shaped attitudes and opinions of the time.

I know it's not your intention but I dislike the blame the Western powers rhetoric that always comes through. I'm not sure what the West could have done. This is 1948 coming off the back of a devastating world war. It's no wonder that Britain, faced with a huge rebuilding of a country after war, massive war debts and having to help with European construction, wanted to leave it to itself (especially because there was no strategic benefit to Israel/West Bank and Gaza with no oil there). Same goes for an even more destroyed France. And the US has reconstruction in Japan, Europe and the beginnings of the Cold War. At the same time, it wasn't just the West, Russia were part of the UN and were one of the first countries to recognize Israel's declaration of Independence in 1948. So although it's fashionable to blame the West, sometimes, areas are ****ups all by them. The 1947 plan was a reasonable and well thought out plan to a difficult situation.

This is wrong. In 1947, a partition plan was presented by UN to partition what was the British mandate land (Israel, West Bank and Gaza) into two countries with Jerusalem given a special status under international administration. The land was divided up based on population. So predominantly Arab areas would become part of Palestine. The Jewish population areas and remaining land (mainly the desert bits that people had been unable to settle due to harsh conditions) becoming part of a Jewish state. The Jewish leadership accepted, the Arab leadership refused. So the plan was dead. In 1948, Britain pulled out as they wanted rid of being in charge. Israel declared independence (but really, there was no defined borders at this stage as all plans had been refused and he situation was going to war). After the war, a ceasefire was declared creating the borders we know today. Egypt controlled Gaza. Jordan controlled the West Bank. Israel the bit in the middle. but importantly, it's inaccurate to say the Western powers told three quarters of a millions people to leave.