Pub breath

I'd say yes and no. The fault for all this mess was down to one man. Radrizzani. He had nothing to do with the club before he bought it and has nothing to do with the club now. He was a steward and the mess he got us in to and left behind is not the fault of the institution, LUFC. But the discussion wasn't even about who's fault was what. It was about who the better team is and whether Leeds results before September were representative of the present team or not.

7 and then 2 more at home vs Wednesday in the first game in September before we started to gel. We would likely spank them if we played that match now. I realise that you probably don't want it it to be true but you have to try and explain why we averaged a point a game for the first 5 games and 2.3 ppg since? That's 6.5 points dropped from the average since or 5 in August if we discount that Wednesday game. I think even the most stubborn non-Leeds fan could probably admit that the difference in results before and after that period, may have a logical explanation. Of course not getting a manager until 3 weeks before the start of the season and having players force moves away in his first month in charge with most new signings waiting until the end of August, hugely impacted our start. It would any team. Do you not believe it did, if you're dead honest with yourself?

Which, whilst maybe fair, is also a subjective point. I tend to trust opinions a whole load less than facts. As imperfect as XG/XP are, they tend to work out pretty well over extended periods. Teams wirh greater possession, attempts, attempts on target etc tend to gain more points over an extended period. That can scrub away some of the judgement errors in the "feel" of things or confirmation biases. As fans, we generally want to believe we are better/more hard done by/more unlucky etc than we probably are in reality. Emotions cloud judgements.

Not pride at all. Got no interest in that It's objective analysis based on logical premises. That's why I've been careful with my words and said "at the minute". If Leicester push on and finish 14 points ahead of Leeds, they have been comfortably the best team over the season. I'll come on here, congratulate you and recognise that. I still think you'll win the league BTW and have said that all season. I think a few people are confusing my questioning of the poster's words with hubris or an assertion that Leeds are the best team in the league. I have not stated that whatsoever. I'm only talking about now. I can't predict the future. Right now, Leicester are not clearly the best team in the league and have not been since August. Demonstrably.

It is a good effort given what an incredible season youv'e had.. Cheers. We are one point better since the two teams were recognisable as they are now.

Dunno. Norwich were 2-0 up against us at home with just over 20 mins left and we won 3-2. Being 2-0 doesn't win you a game, especially not at ER. It's a moot point as we will never know. We deservedly beat you at your place too. There is no logical argument to say you are head and shoulders the best team as things stand.

Because fewer than half of the team playing now were playing in August. That seems fair if we are making a comparison of who the best team is. You know, actually comparing the teams and not a load of players who aren't actually at the club.

The statement was that you are "head and shoulders" above anyone in this league. As this side wasn't formed until the last day of August, that's what's being disputed. Your gap was formed before then. Since, we have more points. Many of your fans also recognise your remaining games are tougher than ours which means they have been easier up to now. Aye. So far, you've had a better season but you are demonstrably not head and shoulders the best team. Sorry but there's just no justification for that comment at this stage.

Nah. The one that is properly gelled and just won 9 straight league games averaging nearly 3 goals a game and conceded 2, beating both our nearest rivals 7-1 combined. That one

No. She's a Sunderland fan and they typically hate us.

Is that all it takes to be head and shoulders? Fewer points since August which is when this Leeds team was formed. The team you see today did not exist in those first five games. Does that factor?

Are they presently chasing you down in the league and your nearest rivals? Not better. "Head and shoulders better".

Read the Gaurdian article then. I just have. They said Piroe should have scored and Gnonto could have scored a hattrick. Not my words but a journalist

How you have come to that conclusion after the two ganes against Leeds and whatever the permutations were, a 4-1 aggregate loss, needs some serious explaining. Head and shoulders better, but lost 4-1 over 180 minutes. Come on man

Maybe you need an eye test?

I'm a Leeds fan and yes, we absolutely got lucky. It's not something I can say often as a Leeds fan but we really did. But, you're going way OTT in your assessment of the game. The first half was pretty even. We had several chances to score, as did you. Piroe should probably have got one and both Gnonto and Summerville had chances to score when through on goal and made bad choices. You had a great spell from 50 to 75 mins when you caught us on the break several times and should have scored. We then completely dominated the last 15/20 minutes in return. All the chance creation stats were pretty even. The XG about the same (doesnt factor in the disallowed goal but also doesnt our fluffed 1 on 1 chances). Leeds dominated the ball 60 to 40 percent. None of that tallies with your assessment of this astonishingly unequal game. There was something about the flow of it that perhaps skews the perception of how it really went. You can't airbrush the last 15/20 like it somehow didn't happen because you'd dominated the period before. The teams took turns to get on top in the second half and you failed to score when you did. We scored three times with some slices of luck involved. That was the key difference. It was a game you could have won with the flow.of it. You could easily have gone 2 or 3 nil up in the second half. We could easily have scored 1 or 2 in the first half though. Nothing happens in isolation though so a great spell in the second half doesn't win you the game and certainly didn't equal an kind of humiliation. The one thing you did better than any team we've faced all season, is press our dangerous forward players. They had no time and that forced us into rushed and bad passes. When that dropped though, all hell was going to break loose and invariably did.

I've seen fans react like that before. A few times. All of those at Elland Road though. The only time I've seen similar is when Newcastle first got promoted to the PL back in the late 90s or whenever it was. They were brilliant then and some epic scenes for a season or two before they acclimatised.

Their home support is absolutely atrocious so....no. Not as the question is posed. Overall package?

Fans of many clubs who visit ER. Fans of other clubs I've taken with me to games. Pundits. Ex players continually say it was the loudest away ground they played at. Cesc Febregas said it was the closest ground he'd heard to a Latin ground in England. But yeah, it's all subjective. You can't really measure it, can you? Who do you think are the most passionate fans in England out of interest?

Jeez, that hasn't been true for about 4 decades.

It's all about what it's being compared against. I doubt any Leeds fan is trying to pretend ER is always on it and the noise is constant. It isn't but compared to almost all other grounds in the country, it's more consistently on it. The peaks are not only hit when we're winning btw and some of the best atmospheres i've seen at ER is when we've been behind. The one common thing i've seen is that in vital games, people seem to get game focussed and nervy so there's a drop off. What you saw last night was not how it always is when we're behind, far from that. There are variances like in everything. The media rave about ER because of what it's like when it rises and what they see elsewhere by comparison. It can be an incredible theatre at it's best. I've never seen scenes like the last 15 and at FT in any other stadium in England. Happy to be given a comaprative example if i've somehow missed that but doubt I have.

So two things. One, you took a fairly early lead. Name me a ground anywhere that is reliably bouncing when their team is losing? Two, I knew it would be quiet anyway. Nerves. Whenever there is a huge amount riding on it, ER can often decend into a nervy and quiet mess. When it erupts it erupts louder than any ground in the country. You won't see or hear anything like that last 15 minutes anywhere else in English football and that's why we have that reputation. No English ground is a wall of noise now. Those days were over years ago.

Yep, it's always been that way. It's a product of that period of any "away" fans being banned if rumbled. Makes it a pretty parochial place. How dare you stray to this part of the Internet? There's a Forest fan that has been there since near enough day dot. He's always had a free pass. Nobody knows why

...and I strongly suspect it will. What an occasion that'll be!! The oddest thing of all? I'm not really all that bothered about being in the PL. It's such a contradiction because success will be promotion. This, down here though, is all so much better.

You weren't mate. It's all good.