Lillehamring

At the risk of sounding like i hate JJ (which i really don't), i completely disagree on what he brings going forward - at least as far as end product is concerned - 3 goals and 2 assists in 6115 minutes is very poor. I get that Doyle has been a bit wobbly but he's actually contributes more to the attack than any other defender: his xA ranks third only to KDH and nacho, whilst only KDH and Stephy have more assists.

Realistically, he's nowhere near the ricardo spot - granted he's only played 90 minutes (though in a game where we passed very well as a team, and yes he was better in the cup games) but he has to improve his passing from a dismal 66% to play that position - ricardo, for the season, is completing 91%, winks 94%, and hamza 96% - it's such an incredibly technical position to play and does not play to Justin's strengths. I think the reluctance to use him so far is twofold: 1. because he isn't playing with much confidence, certainly on the ball, and 2: because he only really has the skill set to play the outside CB role and, frankly, Faes and Doyle are better than him.

To be fair though, he's said positive things about every player - and i think his particular degree of gushing about JJ (who wasn't great in a lot of areas) is because the guy seems to be really low on confidence. For example, for the southampton goal he doesn't do enough to win/stifle the long ball and then didn't seem to know where he should be in the aftermath of doyle's error; he's clearly intimidated by playing as a RCB rather than a FB. Also telling that in the 33-pass goal, vestergaard has the option to pass to JJ numerous times but never does - clearly something isn't quite right mentally with Justin, despite him playing better than he has done for a long while - yes, he had some good moments, but equally he made some shocking passes and, especially for the che adams chance, was caught in a dream world and reacted by jumping in. I'm not pointing this out to be critical of the bloke, but just suggesting that it seems to me that, following his injuries, he's a lost a good deal of edge to his game and it's great that Enzo is trying to correct this, as opposed to him genuinely believing that Justin was 'unbelievable' - which he clearly wasn't.

It's not inconceivable that he might even try a combination of Faes/Coady/Vestergaard - granted JV is not left footed, but he has more composure than doyle and more savvy - at least based on doyle's recent performances. That said he was superb in the first few games. Spoilt for choice.

I don't think it has been through stubbornness, but more due to still having limited alternatives (given how early it is into his time here) and the nature of the teams we've previously played.

Until required to play it on, when he proves he has a LOT to work on with his passing - a 67% pass rate is wholly unacceptable in this system. especially as a few of his poor passes set up instant chances for southampton.

We will and already have been doing this - perhaps not too much or as agriculturally as we have previously done, but it is already a part of his tactics. Interestingly, we played balls over the top in the liverpool game and another preseason game where daka played on the wing - if memory serves he was unluckly with a couple of poor/close offside calls, and wasteful on another occassion. And, just off the top of my head, kdh against cov and nacho against burton were bothe from crosses into the box.

As i said, i was reluctant to talk about 'them' and 'us'. But it shouldn't be taken as condescending - i'm not saying we're better or superior for studying the tactics behind what happens on the pitch, simply that if you're better informed it's much easier to see things. I remember when i started watching baseball i found it utterly bewildering, after watching a game a day for some time eventually i knew what was going on and now i love the sport. So i do understand why people are frustrated - my old man (a regular poster here) is still unconvinced by what he's seeing (even though i believe he does read this thread)... Honestly, i have an issue with being too concerned with what other people think, i'll be quiet now....

Weakness is a very difficult quality to measure. There's an argument to suggest that Winks is stronger than even a prime Youri would be in this system, or that McAteer is more suited to the system and thus stronger than Harvey Barnes?

The worst thing about that is that we had one good season playing that way, we've never historically been a counter attacking team - were we a counter attacking team when we stuck eliott and walsh up front? - hell no. I remember for years we we're always referred to as a 'set piece team'. It's insane, it's like - 'well, it worked that time, it's got to work again'. Madness.

At the risk of reopening a BR debate - his time with us will possibly be remembered as the greatest enigma of my lifetime supporting this club. Those first two years were the best i've ever seen a leicester team play (yes, even more than 15/16), the second two amongst the worst. Maybe someone will write a book about WTF went wrong.

But i suppose Chelsea, even us to a parallel degree, prove that having a good squad on paper doesn't always equate to success.

I suppose it comes down to whether you know what you're looking for or not. I hate to resort to the 'us' and 'them' concept again, but i feel like, knowing how maresca wants to play makes it all seem apparent - for example, knowing why vestergaard deliberately stands on the ball i can appreciate how crucial that is to maresca's tactics; for those who don't know, it looks like a clueless player standing waiting for something to happen. Knowledge is power, ignorance is....well, probably grumbling about rodgers and leaving after 85 minutes.

This actually goes back to what ( @Finnegan ? ) has said about pep and his use of changing pace and intensity as a form of tactical shift - those last 10 minutes of the game we go into turbo mode. Against Hull from when Vardy came on at 68' - we had over 80% possession and registered 10 shots (3 more than hull had all game), and from 80' we had 83% possession and 7 of those 10 shots. Sure we were chasing the game (i haven't looked at the other games), but that is a ridiculous surge of pressure. People have been critical of us not being more 'gung ho' - but this shows that we are capable of throwing everything into attack. I feel like i've spent a lifetime hating the spanish national team for how they play, and now we're doing exactly what i hated - ie. 80 minutes of passing the ball around and then going frantic for the last ten minutes!

This is very significant, actually - when we think of that liverpool, we think of mane, firmino and salah - which is a hell of a step up from mavididi, nacho and *insert right wing option here*

Is that so? That would explain why we had so many chances, but, man, they were really there for the taking. I'd like to think that in a while, teams playing like that against us will be punished.

Also, - The emperor's new clothes? - i think you're confusing your metaphors here - the wins are real, the development is real, there is no fraud, no illusion or trickery...

Have an opinion, but if it's not discussing maresca's tactics, there are other, more appropriate paces to make it. Speculating what may or may not happen in the future - sure, anyone could be right - but if we're discussing what has actually happened so far, all opinions are welcome, but i, personally, would simply ask: back it up, give examples, justify opinions.

Yeah, i know it might come across as a bit superior the way i've spoken about this thread, but it genuinely is the most sensible place on the forum. Personally, i've found it fascinating getting insight from some really knowledgeable posters, as well as us general enthusiastic amateurs

Well that was an anti-climax. What happened to all the 'bloated squad' guff, the 'who's going to be left out' talk, the 'oh we need to sell the deadwood' chat? Unless i've missed something everyone who anyone is in....