Ultra Posted 4 August 2006 Share Posted 4 August 2006 Forty six Battles of Millwall will do em fine. Damn right. 138 points will be more than enough for promotion! It's a results industry FFS. If you want "artistry" THAT much, go to Nottingham and see the next Torvill and Dean show! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultra Posted 4 August 2006 Share Posted 4 August 2006 I sympathise with your comments. Indeed I'm unhappy that I feel so passionate about it myself. The only reason I'll be stocking up on wine now is to nullify the senses, to sleep through what lies ahead. And just imagine we win at Luton...it will guarantee the status quo for another few weeks. And now you're hoping that we lose. Just what kind of "fan" are you?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookwhaticando Posted 4 August 2006 Share Posted 4 August 2006 And now you're hoping that we lose. Just what kind of "fan" are you?? Nobody wants a loss per se, but some among us wish for certain players to be banished from the side, never to return. To achieve this, they have to underperform - and unfortunately, since there's a few of these players that people don't want to see - if they underperform at the same time, the side will struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 4 August 2006 Share Posted 4 August 2006 You seem to have this habit of taking a statement and slightly modifying it to mean something else. I expressed concern about the prospect of our winning because, being such an ardent supporter of Leicester City, it grieves me almost to tears to see the road they are going down and have been going down for so long now. I have singularly failed to get anyone to look at our League position, our record and get them to realise we need to score more goals and that means having more attackers in our side. It makes me frustrated. But I've not said I wish they'd lose. And I didn't say that deliberately because I just couldn't bring myself to say it. I simply said what I said. It was not ambiguous and it was the truth. The sort of team most people believe will play at Luton can win enough games to stay virtually unchanged all season. And if that happens we will not get promoted and will not have made an appeth of progress towards that end in the forseeable future. How that opinion makes me less of a fan than anyone else I don't know but to see your warped interpretation of statements is nothing new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez of Mahrez Posted 4 August 2006 Share Posted 4 August 2006 I expressed concern about the prospect of our winning Yeah I hate it when they do that. Bastards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newms Posted 4 August 2006 Share Posted 4 August 2006 We dont score enough goals but we also still concede too many goals. Putting out a more defensive side should go some way to help us stop conceding as many goals. It is one of the general rules that you get the defense right first then the rest follows. I actually think the opposite of you Thracian, I think it will be far easier to incorporate young, inexperienced players in a winning team than a losing one. We start winning and the confidence will build throughout the squad. It will also enable us to try those who are untested and take more risks buoyed by the belief in the team. If we lose games and then rely on the younger players it is a huge amount of pressure to place on them and a task they may not be capable of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 4 August 2006 Share Posted 4 August 2006 We dont score enough goals but we also still concede too many goals. Putting out a more defensive side should go some way to help us stop conceding as many goals. It is one of the general rules that you get the defense right first then the rest follows. I actually think the opposite of you Thracian, I think it will be far easier to incorporate young, inexperienced players in a winning team than a losing one. We start winning and the confidence will build throughout the squad. It will also enable us to try those who are untested and take more risks buoyed by the belief in the team. If we lose games and then rely on the younger players it is a huge amount of pressure to place on them and a task they may not be capable of. Fine. But will you tell me how we're going to win more games by putting out a more defensive side?. However you stick it together our defenders aren't superstars, our front line goalkeeper's are suspect and we are notoriously bad at dealing wih set pieces (while haing none of our own, which shows no sign of changing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonbluefox9 Posted 4 August 2006 Share Posted 4 August 2006 Rob's been working with Sheehan at Belvoir Drive since the back end of the 2004/05 season. He knows what he's all about and what will do him good. I don't think he'll send him on loan to any old club. He'll send him somewhere that he thinks will help him improve as a player. I also know that the coaching staff rate Porter highly. The coaching staff work at the club day-in, day-out. They know how the players tick and what will be best for them. Even if Rob wanted to send either of them on loan, ultimately it will be their own choice whether they actually go or not. A good loan spell can do a lot of good for a player. I just wish Levi had gone on loan when it was rumoured last season. I think it would've done him good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newms Posted 4 August 2006 Share Posted 4 August 2006 Fine. But will you tell me how we're going to win more games by putting out a more defensive side?. However you stick it together our defenders aren't superstars, our front line goalkeeper's are suspect and we are notoriously bad at dealing wih set pieces (while haing none of our own, which shows no sign of changing). we won quite a few games under Kelly after January with Maybury playing right wing, our current defenders and Henderson in goal so ofcourse we can win games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 4 August 2006 Share Posted 4 August 2006 I'd love to know exactly what he's doing wrong seeing he's been excellent whenever I've watched him for several months now. I haven't seen ANY excellence from Maybury, Hughes, Williams, Tiatto, Sylla, Low ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newms Posted 4 August 2006 Share Posted 4 August 2006 I'd love to know exactly what he's doing wrong seeing he's been excellent whenever I've watched him for several months now. I haven't seen ANY excellence from Maybury, Hughes, Williams, Tiatto, Sylla, Low ... you see what you want to see Thracian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 4 August 2006 Share Posted 4 August 2006 That still doesn't answer my question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 4 August 2006 Share Posted 4 August 2006 we won quite a few games under Kelly after January with Maybury playing right wing, our current defenders and Henderson in goal so ofcourse we can win games. Yes but we scored 22 goals in those 16 matches and seeing as we conceded 59 in 46 I think you'll find that won't be enough goals on past history. Logically, we would seem to have fewer goals in the team now rather than more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newms Posted 4 August 2006 Share Posted 4 August 2006 That still doesn't answer my question. maybury's goal against Derby, Williams has bent a free kick in pre season, Sylla played well at Hinckley, Hughes scored a few last season. If any of the players you want in the team had done the same you would be sure to mention it. I dont favour anybody at the club. Players get in the team based on performance. Of the likely lineup on Saturday perhaps Williams and Tiatto are questionable but they have a chance to prove everybody worng. In the case of Williams he will have to perform as both Hughes and Wesolowski are credible alternatives. Tiatto wont last if he doesnt do what Kelly has asked of him either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted 4 August 2006 Share Posted 4 August 2006 Id much rather have two younger, more attack minded wingers than the likes of Tiatto and Maybury starting. The idea of those two in the starting line up doesnt really set the world alight.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonbluefox9 Posted 4 August 2006 Share Posted 4 August 2006 That still doesn't answer my question. Porter's done nothing wrong but what did the team that finished last season for us do wrong either? Since Rob took over players like Maybury did a solid enough job. Nothing amazing but played their part. You can say they got us into the mess in the first place but they showed at the end of last season that they can win games for us in this division. If you drop Maybury and Porter comes in for example and doesn't perform you have Maybury unhappy at losing his place having done very little wrong at the back end of last season and Porter with his confidence knocked. If Porter goes on loan I think it will improve his game by playing competitive football and should boost his confidence Maybury and Stearman have built an understanding together which won't produce amazing football but works in this division. The partnerships that have been formed are important. The team last season was forever changing and players didn't know how to play with each other. Doesn't mean changes shouldn't be made at some point during the season just limited. The younger players will be introduced to the first team slowly. They'll be eased into it. I don't see a problem with that myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 4 August 2006 Share Posted 4 August 2006 maybury's goal against Derby, Williams has bent a free kick in pre season, Sylla played well at Hinckley, Hughes scored a few last season. If any of the players you want in the team had done the same you would be sure to mention it. I dont favour anybody at the club. Players get in the team based on performance. Of the likely lineup on Saturday perhaps Williams and Tiatto are questionable but they have a chance to prove everybody worng. In the case of Williams he will have to perform as both Hughes and Wesolowski are credible alternatives. Tiatto wont last if he doesnt do what Kelly has asked of him either. Maybury scored once last season all told and Hughes scored just three League goals and one in a Cup match. It isn't enough for midfielders. Sylla played in midfield against Hinckley but I wouldn't say he played well. He tried hard (something most player are expected to do every match) and he did alright without scoring and without making a goal. Sylla didn't score once in 25 League and Cup outings last season. Overall in my match ratings he was in the bottom third against Hinckley. I agree with your notion of players getting in based on performance which is why I wouldn't pick Maybury, Hughes or Sylla against Porter, for instance. Williams and Tiatto have had loads of opportunities to impress and how often has it happened these last 12 months (and I was one who had high hopes for Williams)?, or even in pre-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonbluefox9 Posted 4 August 2006 Share Posted 4 August 2006 Maybury scored once last season all told and Hughes scored just three League goals and one in a Cup match. It isn't enough for midfielders. Sylla played in midfield against Hinckley but I wouldn't say he played well. He tried hard (something most player are expected to do every match) and he did alright without scoring and without making a goal. Sylla didn't score once in 25 League and Cup outings last season. Overall in my match ratings he was in the bottom third against Hinckley. I agree with your notion of players getting in based on performance which is why I wouldn't pick Maybury, Hughes or Sylla against Porter, for instance. Williams and Tiatto have had loads of opportunities to impress and how often has it happened these last 12 months (and I was one who had high hopes for Williams)?, or even in pre-season. You say you still like Elvis Hammond as a player because in the reserve games you saw him play last season he put a lot of effort in. He still scored very rarely even for the reserves and I can't remember him being all that creative in any reserve games either. If effort is the minimum requirement then why should Hammond be noted for his but Momo Sylla's effort be classed as an expectation for a footballer? Don't get me wrong. I don't think Sylla should be in our first 16 but I don't think you can praise one player for their effort on one hand but then give very little regard for another player who has put effort in on the other! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 4 August 2006 Share Posted 4 August 2006 Porter's done nothing wrong but what did the team that finished last season for us do wrong either? Since Rob took over players like Maybury did a solid enough job. Nothing amazing but played their part. You can say they got us into the mess in the first place but they showed at the end of last season that they can win games for us in this division. If you drop Maybury and Porter comes in for example and doesn't perform you have Maybury unhappy at losing his place having done very little wrong at the back end of last season and Porter with his confidence knocked. If Porter goes on loan I think it will improve his game by playing competitive football and should boost his confidence Maybury and Stearman have built an understanding together which won't produce amazing football but works in this division. The partnerships that have been formed are important. The team last season was forever changing and players didn't know how to play with each other. Doesn't mean changes shouldn't be made at some point during the season just limited. The younger players will be introduced to the first team slowly. They'll be eased into it. I don't see a problem with that myself. The last four games of last season were shit and we only won against Plymouth. You are right about Maybury. He's solid. Nothing else and certainly nothing as an attacking midfield player. of course he'd be unhappy being left out, so is everyone else. If Porter wasn't an improvement he'd get dropped but the present policy of keeping the Chosen Men in the team cos they earned us 16th place is getting us nowhere. If Porter goes on loan it will take the pressure off Maybury and Kelly. Nothing more. If Porter came in and did badly then he'd get dropped same as anyone else and if Maybury was unhappy so what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez of Mahrez Posted 4 August 2006 Share Posted 4 August 2006 Yes but we scored 22 goals in those 16 matches and seeing as we conceded 59 in 46 I think you'll find that won't be enough goals on past history. Logically, we would seem to have fewer goals in the team now rather than more. So you're basing our attacking form on Kelly's games but our defensive form on the whole season?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 4 August 2006 Share Posted 4 August 2006 So you're basing our attacking form on Kelly's games but our defensive form on the whole season?! I don't think there was much difference defensively. Sixteen games 19 goals conceded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newms Posted 4 August 2006 Share Posted 4 August 2006 The last four games of last season were shit and we only won against Plymouth. You are right about Maybury. He's solid. Nothing else and certainly nothing as an attacking midfield player. of course he'd be unhappy being left out, so is everyone else. If Porter wasn't an improvement he'd get dropped but the present policy of keeping the Chosen Men in the team cos they earned us 16th place is getting us nowhere. If Porter goes on loan it will take the pressure off Maybury and Kelly. Nothing more. If Porter came in and did badly then he'd get dropped same as anyone else and if Maybury was unhappy so what? if i didnt know better i'd have thought we'd already started the season and were near the foot of the table Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 4 August 2006 Share Posted 4 August 2006 I've never said this side is not capable of keeping us clear of relegation. I've said that it's not capable of taking us forward to anywhere we want to go because it won't score enough goals. Because of that I see no point in not trying to improve things sooner rather than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez of Mahrez Posted 4 August 2006 Share Posted 4 August 2006 I don't think there was much difference defensively. Sixteen games 19 goals conceded. But we won a much larger percentage of our games and gained a larger percentage of points, so I know it's anathema to you but we were by definition harder to beat. If we win a similar proportion of our games over the course of the upcoming season as we did under Kelly last season then I won't be complaining, whether it's 1-0 or 8-7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 4 August 2006 Share Posted 4 August 2006 That really is the modern fanfare from England downwards - hard to beat. It's like reading an epitaph. Don't you understand that if the crowds continue to dwindle on the back of that philosophy we'll end up skint? A 2,000 shortfall doesn't sound a lot but it really is quite serious in percentage terms. That said you've got legions of friends defending that stance of yours so I'd much rather be wrong than right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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