Manwell Pablo Posted 26 January 2007 Share Posted 26 January 2007 Johnson will be back in the team before long, Kelly wont want to admit he signed two duffers without being totally sure Johnsons past it. Unfortunatley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted 26 January 2007 Share Posted 26 January 2007 But Kelly is well capable of being as obstinate and blinkered as Levein was. The problem is that Kelly brought him here and will still want to prove that he's not a dud. Me - I think the statistics speak for themselves. He won't give us any more goals than the other midfielders. Definitely not. If he takes ten touches in the game I'll be shocked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez of Mahrez Posted 26 January 2007 Share Posted 26 January 2007 I think he'd still contribute shots from the right of midfield and he could still be a threat from set pieces with his heading. He's not the fastest but if the ball was on the left wing, he would break his neck to meet it at the back stick. I would say central midfield is not the biggest of problems for the first team at the minute. A bothered Williams, fit Wesolowski, on form Hughes and Tiatto at his best are good central midfielders. The likelyhood of Gradel getting a game is not great with Kelly in charge and with a lack of funds, King could be reverted back there for the first team. He'd be more natural than Hughes is there anyway. I think you've contradicted yourself slightly there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcfc_jme Posted 27 January 2007 Share Posted 27 January 2007 Good win for the kids - notice that King and Gradel chipped in with goals again. They're having good seasons and are certainly good enough players at that level. I'd say that we'll have to start attempting to blood some youngsters and prepare them for first team football pretty soon, especially with the uncertainty surrounding Milans takeover at the minute. Maybe not all at once, but certainly if we can consolidate our position in this division for another season it wouldn't hurt to give them runouts at senior level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonbluefox9 Posted 27 January 2007 Share Posted 27 January 2007 I think you've contradicted yourself slightly there! The point I was trying to make is that we have no natural right wingers in the first team squad at the moment but have some decent central midfielders. Gradel isn't the kind of player Kelly will bring into the first team imo so you've got to look at who he may bring in. Having played as a right winger last season on a fair few occasions, and who knows how many other times at previous clubs, King could play that role more effectively than Hughes does and then Hughes could move to the middle. A midfield with King on the right and Hughes in the middle would have more goals and assists within it than the current one does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez of Mahrez Posted 27 January 2007 Share Posted 27 January 2007 The point I was trying to make is that we have no natural right wingers in the first team squad at the moment but have some decent central midfielders. Gradel isn't the kind of player Kelly will bring into the first team imo so you've got to look at who he may bring in. Having played as a right winger last season on a fair few occasions, and who knows how many other times at previous clubs, King could play that role more effectively than Hughes does and then Hughes could move to the middle. A midfield with King on the right and Hughes in the middle would have more goals and assists within it than the current one does. For me, it's glaringly obvious what our main problem is: we don't have enough pace in the team. I'm not convinced that any combination of Wesolowski, Williams, Hughes, Johnson or Tiatto is going to be good enough in midfield. Seeing Williams/Hughes and Johnson/Tiatto/Wesolowski getting turned around time and time again by simple through balls and not having the pace to get back is really horrible to watch. The only time this season that we've actually looked threatening going forward it was at the start of that injury "crisis" when we had Hume and Hammond up front and they were really getting at defences. The midfield wasn't as important because both of them have decent pace and were unsettling defences on their own without the need for support from midfield. As good a player as Fryatt is in possession, he hasn't got any pace at all and will never get round the back of opposition defences without a midfield behind him that's pushing forward and playing high up the pitch. As I noticed you pointed out in another thread, both Williams and Johnson like to hang around in front of our central defenders. I say "hang around" because "protect" would be a tad misleading. This is the crux of our problem. If you're going to have two deep-lying central midfielders like that, you either need two strikers with the pace and strength to hold up the through balls that are pumped forward or two lively wingers who can get up and down the flanks quickly to provide a link with the attack. From what I've seen at Academy level, the main reason King is able to support the attack so much is purely that the team as a whole is so much better than any opposition in that league. He hasn't got that pace that we need and the main worry for me would be that when young players come into the first team, they can gloss over the initial struggles by providing a bit of spark and energy. I remain to be convinced that King will be able to do that. Porter looks lively in comparison with the rest of our midfield but O'Grady hadn't got that extra yard of pace and often looked sluggish and out of his depth. For King to be effective (and IMO he should be a central midfielder - I can't see him being any more effective than Hughes on the right wing) he will have to play alongside someone like Wesolowski (although I'm not convinced he's reliable enough to be the answer) with the pace being provided by Porter on the left and, for me personally, Hume on the right with Fryatt and Hammond up front. Perhaps Cadamarteri being thrown into the equation if and when he proves his fitness (...and ability...) Williams, Hughes, Johnson, Tiatto and even Wesolowski don't offer pace, they don't offer protection for the defence and they don't offer support to the attack. In my opinion they are the main reason we are where we are. They disguise their uselessness by the odd fancy pass (Williams) or running around a lot (Tiatto, Hughes and dare I say it Wesolowski) or by literally trying to disguise themselves (Johnson as a member of a Red Hot Chili Peppers tribute band). Sorry for the essay. Winds me up having to watch these clowns even ten or fifteen times a season. I don't know how people have the motivation to bother with them every single game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonbluefox9 Posted 27 January 2007 Share Posted 27 January 2007 For me, it's glaringly obvious what our main problem is: we don't have enough pace in the team. I'm not convinced that any combination of Wesolowski, Williams, Hughes, Johnson or Tiatto is going to be good enough in midfield. Seeing Williams/Hughes and Johnson/Tiatto/Wesolowski getting turned around time and time again by simple through balls and not having the pace to get back is really horrible to watch. The only time this season that we've actually looked threatening going forward it was at the start of that injury "crisis" when we had Hume and Hammond up front and they were really getting at defences. The midfield wasn't as important because both of them have decent pace and were unsettling defences on their own without the need for support from midfield. As good a player as Fryatt is in possession, he hasn't got any pace at all and will never get round the back of opposition defences without a midfield behind him that's pushing forward and playing high up the pitch. As I noticed you pointed out in another thread, both Williams and Johnson like to hang around in front of our central defenders. I say "hang around" because "protect" would be a tad misleading. This is the crux of our problem. If you're going to have two deep-lying central midfielders like that, you either need two strikers with the pace and strength to hold up the through balls that are pumped forward or two lively wingers who can get up and down the flanks quickly to provide a link with the attack. From what I've seen at Academy level, the main reason King is able to support the attack so much is purely that the team as a whole is so much better than any opposition in that league. He hasn't got that pace that we need and the main worry for me would be that when young players come into the first team, they can gloss over the initial struggles by providing a bit of spark and energy. I remain to be convinced that King will be able to do that. Porter looks lively in comparison with the rest of our midfield but O'Grady hadn't got that extra yard of pace and often looked sluggish and out of his depth. For King to be effective (and IMO he should be a central midfielder - I can't see him being any more effective than Hughes on the right wing) he will have to play alongside someone like Wesolowski (although I'm not convinced he's reliable enough to be the answer) with the pace being provided by Porter on the left and, for me personally, Hume on the right with Fryatt and Hammond up front. Perhaps Cadamarteri being thrown into the equation if and when he proves his fitness (...and ability...) Williams, Hughes, Johnson, Tiatto and even Wesolowski don't offer pace, they don't offer protection for the defence and they don't offer support to the attack. In my opinion they are the main reason we are where we are. They disguise their uselessness by the odd fancy pass (Williams) or running around a lot (Tiatto, Hughes and dare I say it Wesolowski) or by literally trying to disguise themselves (Johnson as a member of a Red Hot Chili Peppers tribute band). Sorry for the essay. Winds me up having to watch these clowns even ten or fifteen times a season. I don't know how people have the motivation to bother with them every single game. I'm just trying to look at things realistically. If Gradel was going to get a chance at first team level this season (he would bring the pace that we lack) he would've been given that chance by now imo. He may get his chance next season but not at this stage of a season. King has a better chance of getting into the first team this season imo because he's 'less risky' than Gradel. He's more mature than Gradel which makes him a more likely option in the position we find ourselves. I don't think King will get a go either unless injuries force it but longer term King has more of a future here under Kelly than Gradel. If King was brought in you could leave Hughes on the right and play King in the middle or you could move Hughes inside and hopefully get the best out of him and put King out on the right where he's played before. We can't make players pacey between now and the end of the season. There's very little you can do to improve pace full stop as far as I know so we're going to have to work with what we have and find the best way of working with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez of Mahrez Posted 27 January 2007 Share Posted 27 January 2007 I'm just trying to look at things realistically. If Gradel was going to get a chance at first team level this season (he would bring the pace that we lack) he would've been given that chance by now imo. He may get his chance next season but not at this stage of a season. King has a better chance of getting into the first team this season imo because he's 'less risky' than Gradel. He's more mature than Gradel which makes him a more likely option in the position we find ourselves. I don't think King will get a go either unless injuries force it but longer term King has more of a future here under Kelly than Gradel. If King was brought in you could leave Hughes on the right and play King in the middle or you could move Hughes inside and hopefully get the best out of him and put King out on the right where he's played before. We can't make players pacey between now and the end of the season. There's very little you can do to improve pace full stop as far as I know so we're going to have to work with what we have and find the best way of working with it. I appreciate you have to be realistic about the lengths Kelly will go to in order to improve things. I'm just putting forward what I'd do, so I'd try to solve the lack of pace in midfield by sticking Hume back there and frantically trying to bring in a central midfielder on loan. I dunno. Depressing innit. We're shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonbluefox9 Posted 28 January 2007 Share Posted 28 January 2007 I appreciate you have to be realistic about the lengths Kelly will go to in order to improve things. I'm just putting forward what I'd do, so I'd try to solve the lack of pace in midfield by sticking Hume back there and frantically trying to bring in a central midfielder on loan. I dunno. Depressing innit. We're shite. Yes, it's depressing, but as our relegation battle showed last season we're not that good and we haven't improved the squad since then a great deal if at all. I think Kelly would loan a midfielder if he could but I don't think he can. I'm not defending Kelly. He's made mistakes as a manager but at the moment the choices are limited for him. He's got shit and shitter and I don't think a midfield made up of Gradel, Wesolowski, King and Porter would turn our fortunes around. You need some experience in there, unfortunately our experience consists of Andy Johnson who can't run, pass or tackle which is quite important for a footballer in any position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez of Mahrez Posted 28 January 2007 Share Posted 28 January 2007 Yes, it's depressing, but as our relegation battle showed last season we're not that good and we haven't improved the squad since then a great deal if at all. I think Kelly would loan a midfielder if he could but I don't think he can. I'm not defending Kelly. He's made mistakes as a manager but at the moment the choices are limited for him. He's got shit and shitter and I don't think a midfield made up of Gradel, Wesolowski, King and Porter would turn our fortunes around. You need some experience in there, unfortunately our experience consists of Andy Johnson who can't run, pass or tackle which is quite important for a footballer in any position. I am reminded of a feature I saw once on our noble club during pre-season when O'Neill was in charge. It was a preview of the coming season by one of our fans in some football magazine, done in the fashion of a school report. Contained this gem; Must Do Better: Andy Impey. Can't pass, can't shoot, can't cross, can't dribble, can't tackle, can't seem to do anything. Surely some room for improvement there then. Never mind Johnson, Williams would have been kicked out of school by now for truancy, the amount of times he goes missing during games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookwhaticando Posted 28 January 2007 Share Posted 28 January 2007 Would rather have Impey in the side than Johnson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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