Terraloon

I can’t be arsed to check but I think clubs are duty bound (well they certainly are in the PL ) to report the actual figures to the league / police. Anyone fancy a FOI request to the EFL ?

I think we need to be pessimistic about football for a variety of reasons 1) The on going challenges in the European revolving and their freedom to in effect tear up contracts which will impact significantly to clubs like Brighton who have massive net transfer income.This is something that FIFA now have to address . It’s possible separate rules will apply for EU countries. Possible but highly unlikely. 2) Another challenge is an ongoing case namely that players that have been contracted for in excess of 2 years should be treated as are other employees who are in situ for two or more years . What that could ultimately mean is that a player who has been at the same club for say 5 years and that contract is now concluded and isn’t considered to be up to a first team squad place has to be reengaged. It gets further complicated because of the rules around redundancy 3) The minimum wage and holiday entitlement for non league players who are on contracts. Linked to that is HMRC enforcement of rules around non contract players. 4) The Football regulator 5) PSR/FFP isn’t going away. Players wages won’t be going down ( see 1 above) Fees if they survive will reduce with far more going into the players wages

The club had the luxury of hiding behind the fact that tickets (ST) were counted because supporters had paid for entry. The time to make a real showing is if there is a FA cup home tie going forward and no one buys a stand alone ticket.

Come seasons end LCFC are going to have to raise a chunk of money from player sales. Who the hell is going to be sold save for negligible sums. Best squad in the league !

The more you watch the more you realise that this bunch haven’t been told the game plan or even worse is that don’t know how to execute it.

You are right when it comes to players already sold and for whom there were staged payments extending past the 25/26 accounting year and you are almost certainly right when it comes to the PL monies due in in 26//27 but the registered charge isn’t quite as clear cut as to confirm that is the case . The agreement talks about provision of a facility The suggestion was that the balancing sum due for the 24/25 season wasn’t part of this agreement or the first of the 25/26 payments due in August 25? but the payments due for 26/27 due I would guess in August and again in January are The charge only covers payments due from the PL up to and including Jan27 but the security remains in place till 2028 I suspect that’s to provide additional security or as described as being Future Security should there be insufficient pay out to cover sums drawn down plus add ons like interest but of course it’s just as likely that there won’t be any PL monies in 27/28.

I am a bit surprised that some seem to think that there are a lot of additional and doubly lucrative sponsorship/ commercial deals that are out there for what is fast becoming at best a yo yo club but just as likely soon to be a long term championship club. There is world wide exposure at PL level that’s why the big clubs get the big bucks but when it comes to the EFL the exposure worldwide is limited meaning sponsorship deals are far less in value. There of course are some deals that are still in place that were negotiated when LCFC were in the PL but you can bet your bottom dollar that save those that are smaller in value or linked to Leicester based companies the bigger deals with the likes of Adidas, BC game and yes likely KP will reduce significantly in value when out of the PL. To even get close to delivering close to 75% of the commercial and sponsorship deals in season 25/26 would have been a massive challenge . Just looking at the shirt manufacturer deal and the sponsorships aligned to the shirt the only information I can see is that the deal with Adidas was signed long term in 22/23 those deals tend to be be 3, 5 or exceptionally 10 years my guess is that at best it would have been a 5 year deal which means potentially that would end at the end of 26/27 ironically that would mean it would coincide with the ending of PL payments . That is of course is if promotion isn’t achieved in either 25/6 or 6/7. As for sleeve and FOS sponsorship it was reported that in the PLterms the £17.5 million in 24/25 meant LCFC received the 9th most . Significantly more than clubs like Forest (£8 million) . Should promotion not be achieved this season then don’t be surprised if the deals that some are talking about such as sponsorship of a stand will probably happen but as I alluded to in an earlier post the values of those deals aren’t likely to be signed if they tie the club long term

If you look at the notes attached to 23/24 accounts the contingency plans in place point to the fact that circa £110 million is in reserve should funds be needed around 40% of that was loans from KP and the other 60% would be purchase of shares. We simply don’t know what the current cash position is . It is possible that Top has pulled back from those commitments. It may be that the PSR numbers can’t accommodate any increase in equity . There are several possibilities but till we see the 24/25 accounts we really are in the dark

Sorry but if there were lots of ways to generate extra revenue they those opportunities would have been considered already or they generate so little there would be no point in tying the club long term. Irrespective it’s worth looking at other Championship clubs commercial/ sponsorship advertising income and my guess is that they are already up there with EFL clubs. All the soft signals are of a club that has cash flow issues and for far too long LCFC have spent way over what it can afford and costs have to be cut but as the Parachute payments decline then the need to be radical will be challenging to say the least

How can they be re- financed? The fees due for transfers that already have taken place have all been advanced from the Aussie bank and th parachute payments in all like have likewise been advanced.

If the big earners didn’t have relegation clauses in their contracts then I would find that amazing indeed the last published accounts record a dramatic reduction in the wage bill indeed following relegation in 22/23 from £205 m to £107 m in 23/24 I am not so concerned from a PSR perspective for 24/25 as a stand alone year or indeed if you factor in the PSR allowance of £105 million we are passed that, but it’s what is happening here and now. My guess is that the main income streams will accounting wise just about cover the wages but you have then to add on all the costs for such things as utilities, business rates, HP costs, Interest, ground costs , trading ground costs, insurance travel etc etc etc . Just on a back of a fag packet theses accounting costs for 25/26 will run in excess of £30 million maybe as much as £40 million and that’s before you add on amortisation. In reality there needs to be circa £70 million from player profits ( not what they were sold for) We won’t know till we see the 24/5 accounts which players that were sold in the summer 25 window are actually in the 24 /5 or 25/26 year as that will tell us something but the fact that the club haven’t this season paid any fees , well according to transfermarket, tells us a massive story. But that’s in accounts not in the cash in and out. Sorry but you are missing the point that the timing of all this isn’t down to the league but the IC

Most of the indicators , financial that is, are based on accounts that are now some 18+ months out of date. Having said that clearly cash flow has been a concern if for no other reason than just about every staged payment be it transfer fees or PL payments has been either advanced or the ground was set to draw down monies before they are actually due. These arrangements have cost a significant sum in set up fees and or interest and aren’t really the actions taken by a business whose cash flow is sound. The delay in the December wages is in a way a red flag and whilst we can guess as to the reasons the timing of the announcement and indeed the impact would have done nothing to maintain employee/ employer relationships. Was it a necessity or was it truly a organisational decision as briefed ? We simply don’t know how committed or indeed able Top is to fill the ongoing cash flow needs nor do we know if there is an appetite to sell but going back to those “ loans” already in place it’s pretty certain that any potential purchaser will potentially have to plough huge sums into LCFC but how would that be possible with the constraints of FFP and the far more limited ability to do just that whilst under the jurisdiction of the FFL? I personally think Top is caught between a rock and a hard place. I have no doubt he wants out but Administration would see him effectively write off significant sums. I genuinely believe the sh1t will hit the fan if promotion isn’t achieved and at the current time I just can’t see it and any objective view I would imagine backs up that view that promotion is a realistic possibility. In summary I think Top can’t afford to continue to support the club that or he simply hasn’t the interest in the club. He can’t afford to sell but he can’t afford not too and in the next 16 or so weeks we will be hit with a lot of negative news and or indicators .

Once the “ charges” were laid the authorities as you put it lost control of the process and it proceeds under the auspices of the Independent disciplinary body of the PL. A body whose head was appointed by the shareholders ( the clubs and the FA) but it has to operate in accordance with the rule book which again is agreed by the shareholders . That means the PL has no control of the process once the panel is appointed by the independent head who again is so appointed by the clubs . When LCFC “ won “ the appeal and the matter went to arbitration it was pretty obvious that all that was happening was the inevitable day of reckoning was being delayed and that was all down to the club. The book as you put it has already been thrown at the club

As some one pointed out yesterday the latest set of numbers we can realistically debate were for the period ending the end of June 2024 . Those numbers suggested that there are/were funds that could be drawn down should the club hit the financial buffers as it were but as we know that the club’s main income streams ( transfer fees received and PL monies) will be significantly reduced in the current year so even when we get the June 25 numbers we won’t get a true handle of the here and now. It’s pretty certain that all the transfer income that has been advanced has been blown and likewise all the PL parachute payments monies for the current season and maybe PL sums for 26/27 have already been drawn down.Have the sums held previously in reserve and funded by KP been blown or withdrawn? The concern I have been banging on about is that basic running costs can no longer be afforded. Paying wages late is potentially a huge indicator and a well run and financed employer knows everything about its payroll commitments and not dealing with payment on time can’t just be shrugged off by a bland comment about aligning payment dates. The non payment was a very late in the day decision it was a not planned, not communicated in advance . Was it a cash flow call or a new broom stamping their authority? My guess is , and it’s just that , sums payable around the 19th of December which just happens to be the date HMRC will be looking for its wedge , would have been greater than available cash and whilst payments not made on time to HMRC have to reported to the EFL whereas late payment of staff wages won’t need to reported as yet. I am 50-50 regarding the validity of reports re stewards food. The worry is that there really is a penny pinching exercise now being carried out that or the club is in a basic period of rudderless management. But and a big but the club have vast numbers of non playing staff who no doubt are well versed in the process and requirements of putting a game on surely one of the support staff would have picked up on omissions.

Pretty sure that it can’t be run on Championship levels of income that is without parachute payments and or huge transfer income.

Read note 8 of the accounts. The stadium is subject to an HP agreement which has to be settled in June 26.

I believe Monga is still on a scholarship deal with the expectation that he will sign a professional contract in the summer of 2026. If that’s correct I wouldn’t at all be surprised if clubs that fancy him are looking to get him for compensation as opposed to a fee. In terms of him agreeing a pre contract with LCFC that of course is a possibility but then the question arises if a 16 year old can be tied to such agreements

How does it all look without a stadium ?

Hard to argue with this comment but it’s how the reality of the reduction in squad quality Impacts going forward it’s bad enough this season but it’s going to get worse

Very very much doubt that what you are suggesting is correct. For instance if 3 points is laid down as “ automatic “ then that’s what the sanction would be so why would anyone be” arguing for 2-4 points ? Add to that it is not within the gift of a IC to barter nor would any IC be empowered to agree to a sanction being dependent on the club not appealing. All of what you suggest could have be the case had a sanctions agreement been in place prior to an IC being appointed but based on precedent there is little to no chance that such an agreement would be achieved with the footballing authorities.

That is perhaps the most pathetic article I have ever read. This bit wasn’t just rude it was downright disgusting “ They are not proper fans or patriots. They are selfish and think only about themselves. They do not care about their surroundings. They just show their own egoism and have no grit at all. Leicester“

Yes the be careful what you wish for is a tagline and I stand by the wording but perhaps need to explain what I fear in the context of LCFC The money owed to KP, the fact that that company own effectively all the assets, the ground, the bulk of debt etc means that any insolvency event won’t be a simple off with old on with the new it would be highly likely that administration wouldn’t just lead to” here’s a points deduction off you go” it could well be that the administration would be hostile and far from being able to trade through administration the only option for a administrator would be insolvency and yes a phoenix club could be an option but in my mind that would be the end of a top football club in Leicester . Putting more meat in the bone the biggest income streams currently are parachute payments and to a lesser degree transfer fee instalments but those have already been spent and any future payments are subject to a charge meaning they couldn’t be used to fund administration and that fact won’t change in this or subsequent seasons. I can’t be arsed to look it up but KP have the ability to call in debt by way of 12 month notice. They I would imagine realise that the money they are owed can’t realistically be repaid nor I would imagine would any individual/ entity would see value of note in a debt ridden, asset poor club yes with potential but there a few of them but their finances and assets probably are less constrained. As I said in my earlier post there has to be change if there isn’t then the doom loop will continue

Three wheels on my wagon And I'm still rolling along The Cherokees are chasing me Arrows fly Right on by But I'm singing a happy song I'm singing a higgity, haggity, hoggety, high Pioneers, they never say die A mile up the road there's a hidden cave And we can watch those Cherokees Go galloping by "George, they're catching up to us!" "Get back in the wagon woman!" Two wheels on my wagon And I'm still rolling along Them Cherokees are after me Flaming spears Burn my ears But I'm singing a happy song I'm singing a higgity, haggity hoggety, high Pioneers, they never say die Half a mile up the road there's a hidden cave And we can watch those Cherokees Go galloping by "Duh, Paw? Are you sure this is the right road?" "Will you hush up? You and your maps!" One wheel on my wagon And I'm still rolling along Them Cherokees after me I'm all in flames At the reins But I'm singing a happy song I'm singing a higgity, haggity hoggety, high Pioneers, they never say die Right around that turn there's a hidden cave And we can watch those Cherokees Go galloping by "George? Should I get the bag of beads and trinkets?" "Woman, I know what I'm doing!" No wheels on my wagon So I'm not rolling along The Cherokees captured me They look mad Things look bad But I'm singing a happy song "C'mon all you Cherokees, sing along with me!" Higgity, haggity hoggety, high Pioneers, they never say die Higgity, haggity hoggety, high Pioneers, they never say die Higgity, haggity hoggety, high

This comment is the reality, the perspective if you like and certainly the fear. For me the first thing the club and indeed supporters has to do is accept the reality of circumstances. Moaning about the rules is futile if the other stakeholders won’t vote for or indeed see the need for change that’s one thing but the fact that we now have a government regulator now in situ further stifles ambition if anyone thinks that clubs are going to be allowed or indeed able to “ take financial risks” as in the past then they are in for a rude awakening. I wont compare how LCFc are run compared to say Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal etc but clearly there has to be a realistic understanding that these supposed big six have huge revenues compared to Leicester and any club that tries to break into the higher echelons of football has to accept the simple fact for as long as FFP or whatever the respective domestic leagues call their version is in place challengers that emerge will be short term challengers.. in other words short term gain but undoubtedly longer pain. The current owners got carried away and to a large degree so did the vast majority of supporters. The club now has to face up to the reality of its situation but for me the damage is so deep , so potentially damaging I am not sure a change of ownership is the answer the reality is that the ownership& the supporters have to accept that change is going to have to happen and that mean pain . Just finally on a change of ownership be careful what you wish for because yes change is needed but often change fails to deliver the benefits that those calling for expect.

This is where it all comes back to PSR and what the numbers will look like for the time he was out on loan and of course what sum the loaning club would be prepared to pay and indeed what conditions that have to be met to trigger the obligation.If you have an obligation without conditions then for accounting purposes the PSR submissions have to be adjusted as the presumption is that the transfer has happened Let’s just suppose he cost £15 million on a 5 year deal. That period out on loan his amortisation sum would fall to Leicester so say it was a season that would cost LCFC £3 million.. Underpinning all of that you would have to get the player to agree to it all