Les-TA-Jon

1 hour ago, Dan said:

In 2019/20 we had Justin, Chilwell, Soyuncu, Maddison, barnes, Tielemans, Ndidi, Iheanacho all 23 or under. All thriving in the Premier League. To bungle that and end up in League One in six years. You just cannot emphasise how dreadful this is. If we were a bottom half PL team now that would be a fumble, let alone this.

Yeah but look at the careers of all those players since...oh wait...

52 minutes ago, LCFCJohn said:

 

It’s not ignoring 2016 or even things that came previously like the League Cups. Nobody will ever achieve what we did in 2016 so it’s not a comparison which was the point of my post.

 

The point is, when we bottled too 4 twice and performed as we did in Europe, and people called that out, they were shouted down by many who claimed we had no right to have expected better in the circumstances. That is the relevance of the comparison and the timeframe.

 

If dropping a 14 point lead to finish 5th was an achievement, what about Villa and Newcastle achieving that in subsequent years showing that the big guns we’re actually there for the taking?

 

If we had no right to compete in the Europa League, how have Villa won at a canter, Forest even got to the semis and serial bottlers Spurs even won.

 

If getting to the semi finals of the Conference League was such an achievement, West Ham winning it and possibly Crystal Palace by next week makes a mockery of the performance we showed.

 

Even the genuine achievements (FA Cup and Shield) have been matched by Palace.

 

Thats why 2016 was not relevant to the point as it is about the Rodgers era and how the majority of fans wouldn’t call for him to go because of these achievements that have prompted be matched or exceeded by numerous PL clubs.

 

@Les-TA-Jon, absolutely agree with your second paragraph and I have said it regularly that it was all about the particular manager rather than club led strategy.

But doesn't it just show that since 2019-2021 that glut of clubs have simply upped their game? It seems we were at the forefront of this wave of 'best of the rest' in 2019-2021, got it totally wrong (flying too close to the sun) and have since disastrously declined. 

Whereas your Villas, Palaces, Forests etc have done it better since - that's a recent phenomenon - at the time of finishing 5th twice with Rodgers, it was rare for a non-big 6 side to finish in the top 6. It's become more common since. 

I agree with the general sentiment that had we been better ran, by being at the forefront of that wave, we were best placed to ride it to more success than we had. But I don't think club's doing it better since makes our 2019-2021 era worse in retrospect - I think the league has generally 'upskilled' 

28 minutes ago, Pita said:

The FA have hammered Southampton but are to scared to tackle Manchester City 

This forum is littered with whataboutery posts that seem to think the FA, PL and EFL are all the same organisation with the same powers and jurisdiction... 

2 hours ago, LCFCJohn said:

Newcastle - CL qualification 

Villa - CL qualification x 2 and Europa win

West Ham - Conference League win

Spurs - Europa League win

Crystal Palace - FA Cup win, Community Shield win and Conference League win maybe (?)

 

Obviously that’s the achievements of the none biggest clubs in the time since 2021. 
 

Sort of dispels the myth at how well we did right?
 

Palace have equalled our achievements with the FA Cup and Community Shield and look like they could go one better if they win the Conference League next week.

 

Newcastle and Villa showed it is possible to not completely bottle finishing in the top 4.

 

Villa and Spurs showed how to navigate the Europa League. Yes, we are more Spursy than Spurs!

 

And West Ham even won the Conference League.

 

Meanwhile, we bottle top 4 and both European competitions. 
 

It does water down the achievements a bit when you see other clubs operating at a similar level churning out these achievements. 

On the other hand I don't think any of those teams will win the premier league anytime soon, much less with a team of cast offs and nobodies that cost £20m to put together. 

Perhaps it's revisionism but it's long been discussed on this forum that even in the 'good times' (i.e Ranieri / Rodgers) there has been several mistakes under KP - I don't think we ever had the foundations/structure for long term success/building like those listed teams have or have created for themselves. I think we had a couple of purple patches of good recruitment coupled with the 'right' manager at the same time. 

13 minutes ago, filbertway said:

To be fair I also misunderstood your point at first. I think it's because you led with "he's not involved in the day to day running of the club" which initially read like he wasn't a decision maker. Then the mention of Jan kerfuffle threw me further

 

It did make sense in the end though haha

I'd love to edit it for clarity, but 'The late Jan Kerfuffle' (RIP) is too funny

2 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

It’s the other way around big decisions only get made when he can be arsed to participate in the running of the club. 

Isn't that what I'm saying? 

29 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

The way he just continues to deal with us with the same lack of care and dignity despite everything he has done, I genuinely question his real reasons. This isn’t a guy who loves his father and cares deeply for what belonged to him. Im sorry, it isn’t. 

Two things this season gave my a sneaking suspicion he really has very little to do with the day to day running of the club, especially when he's not in the country: 

• The late Jan kerfuffle, where he turned for the Oxford (H) game, finally spoke to the media (where he publicly backed Marti and said he needed more time), then we disastrously lost the game and Cifuentes was sacked the next day. Would Marti have even been sacked if Top hadn't been in attendance? 
• That stupid rallying cry/message he sent out before the Swansea (H) and Hull (H) games - he could have easily sent similar messages at any point in the several weeks beforehand, when the club was clearly in real risk of going down. But those messages only went out when he was here, attending matches. Weird...

15 hours ago, RoboFox said:

I've been putting off watching the doc thinking that I'd just get more annoyed about how badly it's gone wrong. 

 

It actually had the opposite effect. The further away from that season we get, the more surreal it feels. Just completely bonkers.

One little thing I do every year is check the PL table after 30 matches played and look at side at the bottom. Then you say "That team is going to stay up and then win the league next season"

Which of course, sounds insane! 

Like, Wolves staying up this season then winning it! 

13 hours ago, Sly said:

Could they semi asset strip us, then sell the carcass on the cheap? 

Top will lose a ton of money if he sells the club anytime soon, won't he? 

Think KP only leave in one of two circumstances:

• Club is re-established as a PL club and a buyer is found ()
• Club goes into administration and KP are forced to move on

16 minutes ago, lcfc_forever said:

Don't get me wrong, we've been mismanaged for many seasons but the relegation of 22-23 is the one bad season I'm referring as we've spiralled since then as PSR then got out of control because the club was running a top 8 budget. Those clubs you've mentioned have not experienced relegation. 

 

As Whelan said, the effects of that have been felt for some time. 

The 2023 relegation is arguably the worst PL relegation of all time, in terms of underperformance - and I agree with you that season was part of the beginning of the current death spiral.

But whilst PSR had its part to play but I still contend that a good chunk of us going down that season was down to the overall mismanagement of the club. Binning off Kasper and believing Ward was ready to replace. Not sacking Rodgers when it was clear we were in trouble. Making the situation even worse with the Jan spending. Sacking Rodgers too late and wasting precious time and fixtures in replacing him. 

I think you put most other clubs that season in the same situation and they all stay up. 

10 hours ago, Qwerty said:

I agree, but the fact remains that without the punishment of a points deduction, we wouldn’t have been relegated

Relegated with the points deduction = Topkin's fault because of mismanagement

2 hours ago, Pliskin said:

Yes, they emend the rules every time someone abuses them. No doubt, if IF Top is is vaguely interested in saving the club we will likely abuse it and they alter things again. What is it, 75% of our revenue can be spent on player wages and only 60% of I checked revenue can count to that? 

L1 rules have actually gotten tighter with the new vote. 
 

Now only 50% of turnover can go on player/squad costs and only 50% of owner injection is allowable

(Newly relegated clubs allowed 65% of turnover on squad costs for first year only)

1 hour ago, AKCJ said:

How does SCR work for us in comparison to PSR?

PSR is about 'allowable' losses. SCR is about your 'player costs' can only be an allowable percentage of revenue. 

See below for my outline of League One rules, specifically

I wouldn't swap the FA cup win for finishing 4th or whatever. 

I do think though that had we not won the FA cup, Rodgers would have had less 'false credit' in the bank, and come the debacle of 2023, the club might have sacked him earlier and we could have stayed up. Which obviously changes the last 3 years or so. 

But Topkin have presided over such a disaster that we probably would have gone down in 2024 or whatever and had a similar, albeit less sharp, decline. 

5 hours ago, SafewayFox said:

Just so I can keep up (logging on here a lot less lately) but people are now genuinely calling out Enzo because of the dosser and pub player Coady?

 

Yes, we had a huge slump under Enzo and I was vocal about it BUT name another manager in recent history who does what he does when first comes in.

 

Morale on the floor and he won what 16 out of the first 17?

The club had just been disastrously relegated. Morale was in the toilet. Had lost a lot of players. Terrible preseason, disrupted by stupid trip to South East Asia.

14 wins out of opening 15 games. 

W19 D1 L3 in the first half of the season. 

Also think the 'near collapse' is a bit overstated on this forum:

W12 D3 L8 in the second half. 

It's a weird stick that people use to beat him with anyway - 'we nearly didn't win the title you know' ...OK, but we did, so...?

It's not really about whether the spying does or doesn't give an advantage, or to what extent. It's more just shady, unethical stuff for teams in 'fair' competition to be doing to each other. 

15 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

They still appointed him, and it’s still the best thing they ever did. 

Sure. It's just that you were talking about it in reference to the previous relegation to League One, which was under Mandaric, not KP

On 06/05/2026 at 15:44, Gamble92 said:

I'm as anti King Power as you'll find, but I also think the situation is more manageable than the worst case scenario he was throwing out there. 

 

It's a ridiculously avoidable scenario we have found ourselves in but there are ways round it. Dare I say a few benefits too not having to deal with PSR. We can now sell players just to get the money in. Don't have to worry about the amortisation on Fatawu, Kristansen and Faes. Just get money in. 

 

I think best scenario with training ground is to close it for most the year and go back to Belvoir Drive. 

 

Things have changed really quickly in a short space of time. But that also means they can change the other way pretty quickly too. 

This is true for any seasons in League One - but I don't think it's the get out of jail free card people are describing - if we get promoted back to the Championship, we'll be under PSR again and any losses vs book value that occurred will still 'count'. This rabble haven't been able to follow one set of financial rules. I have little confidence in their ability to managed two!

13 hours ago, Pliskin said:

That’s because he knew exactly what he was doing. 
 

The best thing that ever happened to KP was hiring Nige, Walsh and Shakey. It was those three that built the foundations for the future success. It can’t be disputed…. So, when people say “king power did this for us” did they? 
 

If a billionaire paid a master builder to build him a house, would the billionaire be credited for all of the work? Or the builder? 

Agree - but it was Mandaric who appointed NP in 2008 - the Thais didn't appoint NP until after Sven left, in 2011

15 hours ago, Gamble92 said:

They let Ruud stick around not knowing for 2 months despite one of the earliest relegations imaginable.

 

Don't use logic for these people

Pretty sure they knew they were going to sack him. They just waited to see which financial year could stomach the cost of doing so. 

6 hours ago, Headcase said:

6mil for injuredsen? Not a chance

Exactly

19 minutes ago, Aleksz said:

Incredible coup if it were to happen. Share the scepticism of others of why he’d sack European football for us though - despite being of the opinion we have a lot more pull than many of our fans think right now. 

We didn't have pull in the PL after being promoted with almost 100 points. 

We didn't have pull in the PL whilst 16th. 

We didn't have pull in the Championship when expected to challenge for title or playoffs. 

We didn't have pull in the Championship when bottom half. 

But yeah, we'll have pull in League One - after a 3rd relegation in 4 years, becoming the first team to ever be relegated from the 2nd division with the highest wage bill and becoming only the 5th team ever to be double relegated from the 1st division.