TheFish

Isn't that a little out of date? No Nottingham for a start.

Yeah maybe, but we'll never know. I mean we've seen 10 men do well against 11, especially on the counter, something that Newcastle team would have been very good at. Genuinely excited to see Isak and Bruno grow their understanding. This was the first time we've seen the new spine of Botman, Bruno and Isak start the game and we looked very good.

No idea why he wasn't sent off, but I'm not going to complain. Thought we deserved the win on the balance of play, but if he gets sent off there... who knows.

Just theatre, isn't it? Self serving theatre.

PL don't care. Now that the piracy issue is resolved, they're too busy Scrooge McDucking in their swimming pool filled with coins.

Aye, the owners deserve nothing but opprobrium, but digging out the fans for supporting their team is an odd choice. I'm mates with a Man Utd fan and he was baffled by the scenes in Trafalgar square until I reminded him that, for us, a Cup Final is a rarity. So thousands travelled without tickets, just to soak up the atmosphere in the capital. I'm sure if the vile owners get what they want and we become as successful as possible, some fans will become jaded by a League Cup Final, but until that day comes the majority of the Newcastle fanbase will be giddy as schoolkids any time we get a sniff of silverware.

Sorry, I'm a bit lost. I shouldn't be proud of the atmosphere that Newcastle fans created? Even though we were, at that point, surely going home empty handed?

I'm not just talking about pass completion, but the types of passing, the position of the passes, the target of the passes. I get that this is an easy goading remark, but what appears to have been lost in the mists of time is that when Shearer joined Newcastle United, we were legitimate title challengers, in the Champions League and in Cup Finals. He didn't join a mid-table side purely out of home-grown love for the club. He joined because, at that time, we looked like a trophy was around the corner. But then Dalglish ripped the heart out of the team (Ferdinand, Ginola), Shearer got injured, Dalglish was replaced by Gullit who broke the team further. Those were his prime years. And throughout he was courted by Man Utd, Liverpool, Juventus, etc.

Wasn't to be. After getting over the initial disappointment I can't help but be proud of the team and the fans that was still singing in the 80th minute at 2-0 down. Goes to show the difference between the elite teams and us, we had a lot of the ball, played some good stuff but only really tested De Gea twice. But their experience, their quality shone through at the right moments. They scored from an excellent set piece and a deflection, but I don't feel robbed or owt. Casemiro epitomises the difference, he's a player so used to winning he knows exactly how to play the game and not the occasion. Ten Hag had the strength in depth to deal with our specific threats by swapping Dalot for Wan Bissaka. Howe was still relying on Murphy and Ritchie from the bench. The positives are; this is the first full season after the takeover and we're way ahead of schedule, we didn't meekly roll over and accept defeat as we did in our last domestic finals (cough 20yrs ago cough), and I doubt we'll be waiting another 20yrs before another Cup Final appearance at Wembley. Had to laugh at the Man Utd fans celebrating the end of their 'drought', mind you. Six whole years, the poor lambs.

The kind of pressing elite teams do now means that they need all of their players to pressure the opposition. Even Attackers, that's why we've been using ASM less. Sure he's got the kind of control that will leave a right back with twisted blood, but if his indolence means our press is easily bypassed, we're better off with a less gifted footballer who does do the hard graft, like Willock.

Bruno, Joelinton and Longstaff

Aye but goals and assists aren't enough these days. Maddison's got ability in spades, but is he there defensively? I've compared him to the three Newcastle midfielders and while his goals and assists outstrip theirs, his passing, possession, and defensive actions are comparable or worse. These three are not elite players. (well... maybe Bruno but I'm not getting into a fight about that) Will he go for £50m when he's only got a year on his contract?

Depends how granular you want to get. Headline Goals and Assists he does very well, but if you start deep diving into statistics he fares less well. Still good, but not elite. fbref puts him alongside players like Dybala, Hofman, Berardi, Pellegrini. Not bad company.

Absolutely, you see him every week. However, I would argue that your opinions will also be more coloured by bias? I can only go off what I see on tv and from his performance metrics. I'd love him at Newcastle.

I knew it would be an unpopular opinion, but boy oh boy did I stir up the hornets nest. It reminds me of arguments with fellow Newcastle fans about our best player not really being 'World Class'. Like, Saint-Maximin is an amazing footballer, even when he's not having one of his days, but he's nowhere near good enough to play for an elite side. (No, I'm not saying Maddison is worse than ASM). Maddison is your best player, and you love him. Some jumped up Northerner saying he isn't 'elite' is bound to rattle you a bit. If someone dared suggest Bruno Guimaraes isn't the second coming on a Newcastle board, you'd get the same response. I just don't think Maddison is good enough to 'get into literally any side in the world'.

You all seem to have taken great offence, and that wasn't my intent. Maddison is very good, there's no question about that. But if he was truly the superstar you think he is, why haven't the elite clubs dropped huge sums on Leicester to tempt him to leave. Leicester have sold their best players before, Maddison's contract only has 16 months left to go, he plays in a role that most elite teams utilise, it's the consensus that Leicester have holes to fill in their finances. These are all positives for a buying side before you even get to the player himself. You'd think that one of them would have tested your resolve, but instead of them, it was us. His form for you is amazing, but objectively he's not as good as the players for his role, playing for the elite sides.

Sorry, there's been a misunderstanding. Maddison isn't good enough to play for the elite teams. Not because he's at Leicester, but simply because he's not that good. If he was that good, somebody would have met the asking price. As they did with Grealish from Villa.

No, he's not, otherwise he would be.

Probably around £40m. From what I've heard (and despite reports) Leicester were holding out for closer to, or beyond £100m because of where you were, who we are, and what he means to your team. I don't think c£100m on Maddison represents good value for NUFC. If we were gunning for the title and had all the other jigsaw pieces in place bar him, then maybe. But, as I've said, our aims for this season were top half and do well in the cup. We can achieve those without Maddison and when/if he leaves Leicester in the summer, I'd be surprised if he went for anything close to £100m. Don't get me wrong, I think it's good business sense to stick such a massive price tag on him. He is your best player, integral to how you play, and, at the time, you were still very much in the relegation conversation. Selling him would have been seen by fans and other players as a white flag of surrender.

Our targets for the season before it started will have been top half finish, good showing in the cups. We're way, way ahead of schedule. Everything that I heard is that we did try for Maddison but you were, understandably, asking for way over his market value. Gordon represents where we are in our progress. We could get a young kid with potential who very much fits into the blueprint of an Eddie Howe team; energy, speed, tenacity, decent technically, and a bit of a shithouse. We could weaken an opponent safe in the knowledge they wouldn't spend the money well (see Wood from Burnley). We would need to have spent 3 times that £40m to get Maddison from you in January. Given our stated targets, is Maddison the right signing at that price? Probably not, no. That would see us eat £80m further into our FFP wriggle room. And would he be the difference between 6/7th and 4th? Maybe, but if we're happy with 6/7th, why bet the house? Similar story with Matheus Franca, we wanted to pay £20m flat, Flamengo wanted £25m + 50% of any future deal. We may have been able to afford it, but is it worth it right now? Come the summer we should have some better commercial deals, especially if we somehow get back in the CL conversation. Those deals inflate the FFP wriggle room, and we can revisit Maddison and Franca. Who do you think Maddison will end up at?

First full season after the takeover and we're 4th and in the League Cup. Our vile owners have access to huge reserves of wealth, our transfers have, thus far been more hit than miss. Not sure where you get the confidence to assert this.

Aye, but they weren't exactly feted by everyone else. Joelinton was a £40m flop in the eyes of everybody, except himself. The summer before the takeover he sought out a private coaching company and worked on the parts of his game that were weak. Then, when it was announced that Eddie Howe would be the new manager, he and they tweaked his personal training regime to become the kind of player that would work best under Howe. The lad deserves huge amounts of praise for his professionalism, commitment and I'm delighted he's getting the rewards and recognition. Honestly, I think we'd be better off getting an out and out defensive midfielder. I don't think the attacking midfield position is one where we're weakest. He's obviously got quality, but injuries and our priorities should have us looking elsewhere, in my opinion.

Definitely. Although, Joelinton was bought as and had played before as a forward. Clark getting sent off and Joelinton being shunted to CM changed his career. Bruce tried to claim credit for that as well.

The last bit is why I can't see you letting him go on loan. You'll want the cash up front so you can bring in some replacements before the end of the window. I'm not under or over him. If he comes, he comes. I'm not losing sleep either way. My hope at the beginning of the season was 7-9th in the league. We'll get that with or without Maddison. People were similarly dismissive of Joelinton and Almiron. Look at them now.

Gordon is Almiron for the left flank. If Howe can get a tune out of him then he can be as good as Miggy, if not better. If this is the first real waste of money then, meh, they've still got a very good strike rate. We're also doing a fair bit of business that we won't see the fruits of for a while, like Kuol who's gone off to Hearts, this young right back we've signed for £3m from West Ham looks like a good prospect and a bit of a mini-Trippier. Done pretty well to offload some deadwood this window as well. Wood for c£20m to Forest, Shelvey for £10m to Forest, Darlow to Hull. Shelvey going should mean we're looking to bring in another Centre Mid. Can't imagine it'll be Maddison though, not after we've dropped £40m on Gordon. A loan deal is most likely and there's no way you'd allow him to go anywhere on loan.