Forced marriage

[Thracian]

Consideration is now being given to a new law making it an offence to force women into arranged marriages.

What does the forum think?

To me there's not even a debate. How can the idea of "Human Rights" be equatted with the notion that women can be forced to marry someone who is not of their choice?.

[Guest]

From a personal point of view, I am against arranged marriages. People should be allowed to live their own lives, make their own mistakes and successes, and learn from them.

I have had friends who have been through arranged marriages. Most are successful, but some have problems that may or may not be exacerbated by the fact both parties have had no choice in marrying.

[Shum]

From my ppint of view, I am totally against arranged marriages when they are forced upon people.

These days (in my family anyway) it is a lot more relaxed, if you've found your own partner then great, but if not the family are always willing to help set you up (with no pressures attached) which I think is just fine.

It's like a mate setting you up on a date or something like that.

[Rincewind]

One of my work colleages is going to India in October to get married. It is arranged I believe but he is fine with it. He has met her and they get on well together. She is well educated as well.

Perhaps Shum can be more enlightening but I believe the marriages are arranged between families of similar soacial standing. The Royal family have been doing it for centuries. In Western society people mix more so a middle-class girl can fall for a working class bloke or visa versa but in a community where the circles are tight this may not happen.

Good or bad? I don't know, but with somebody like me it may have worked as I am quiet and reserved and never been very good at chatting up girls hence one of the reasons for still being single. I'm happy with it though. Honest.

[Anish]

As Shum says, nowadays so-called 'arranged marriages' are far less imposing and there is far more choice (in the Hindu community at least). The family may introduce you to a boy/girl but they won't force you to marry that person - you are simply introduced and go out together and make your own decisions.

It is important not to confuse arranged marriages with forced marriages, they are completely different and arranged marriages have no coercion involved.

[rossporterlc]

i think arranged marriages are a bad idea, unless you want an increasing divorce rate

[Hitesh]

As Shum says, nowadays so-called 'arranged marriages' are far less imposing and there is far more choice (in the Hindu community at least). The family may introduce you to a boy/girl but they won't force you to marry that person - you are simply introduced and go out together and make your own decisions.

It is important not to confuse arranged marriages with forced marriages, they are completely different and arranged marriages have no coercion involved.

Exactly, and its been like that for many years now. My mum and dad had an arranged marriage, not a forced marriage! Noadays, its only an introduction and then its left to the boy/girl. Its much better that way!!

PS: i thought this was going to be another Lush thread when i saw the title!

[Anish]

i think arranged marriages are a bad idea, unless you want an increasing divorce rate

That is such an ignorant view. The divorce rate isn't exactly at 0 with couples who haven't had an arranged marriage is it???

There is evidence to suggest that arranged marriages are more likely to last - because the couples will have come from similar backgrounds, been brought up in the same way, have common goals/ideals, and share the same beliefs.

I'm not saying that people should have arranged marriages or not - but to dismiss arranged marriages like you have just done and to say they cause higher divorce rates is absolutely ridiculous, and narrow minded.

[rossporterlc]

That is such an ignorant view. The divorce rate isn't exactly at 0 with couples who haven't had an arranged marriage is it???

There is evidence to suggest that arranged marriages are more likely to last - because the couples will have come from similar backgrounds, been brought up in the same way, have common goals/ideals, and share the same beliefs.

I'm not saying that people should have arranged marriages or not - but to dismiss arranged marriages like you have just done and to say they cause higher divorce rates is absolutely ridiculous, and narrow minded.

well i don't think it would contribute a lot because i don't think arranges marriages are as common place these days, but i think being forced to marry someone makes it a lot more difficult to get on with that person, i may be totally wrong but oh well

[Anish]

well i don't think it would contribute a lot because i don't think arranges marriages are as common place these days, but i think being forced to marry someone makes it a lot more difficult to get on with that person, i may be totally wrong but oh well

With arranged marriages you aren't forced - it's your decision. You can't confuse the 2 - arranged marriages are completely different to forced marriages (which are more common in the Muslim community than anywhere else). It is important to understand the difference - yes forced marriages are more likely to end in failure because neither party has had a choice, but it's not the same with arranged marriages.

[rossporterlc]

With arranged marriages you aren't forced - it's your decision. You can't confuse the 2 - arranged marriages are completely different to forced marriages (which are more common in the Muslim community than anywhere else). It is important to understand the difference - yes forced marriages are more likely to end in failure because neither party has had a choice, but it's not the same with arranged marriages.

like i said probably wrong

cheers for the insight

[Thracian]

Exactly, and its been like that for many years now. My mum and dad had an arranged marriage, not a forced marriage! Noadays, its only an introduction and then its left to the boy/girl. Its much better that way!!

PS: i thought this was going to be another Lush thread when i saw the title!

I do wish people would stop give the impression that I am somehow in League with Lush. I am not nor am I ever likely to be.

I have defended his right to an opinion (plenty of religious activists have been preaching unacceptably hateful diatribe for years to Muslim youngsters without hindrance until recently) and I don't like to see him, or anyone else, bullied/banned etc for daring to counter these people.

Sometimes I think he has a point to make (though he is invariably too intense in the way he makes it), sometimes I disagree with him completely and sometimes I feel he is just not listening to anyone else's point of view at all.

I presume you Hitesh and you Anish are both Asian (forgive me if I'm wrong) and I cannot recall having anything but respect for or interest in what you have to say both in this general interest sector and in the football sector.

Indeed, if I knew you I am sure I'd be happy to buy you a drink and enjoy your company.

I've posted this thread because I think it is a current topic of interest and have voiced my own view pretty simplistically because it seems polite (as the instigator) to offer a view.

My opinion, as I've outlined, is that all people should have a choice of who they marry. It is interesting to note the difference between arranged and forced marriages - discourse such as this does give a greater understanding of the way different cultures work.

Indeed I can't see there is much difference between the way introductions are made by families (and the choice left to the couples) and the way Western families organise parties/social gatherings so their offspring meet the right people (not that such manipulating, however well intentioned, does not go dramatically wrong).

Forced marriages seem indefensible but, like I say, what does the forum think. Is there anyone around to defend forced marriages?

[Hitesh]

I do wish people would stop give the impression that I am somehow in League with Lush. I am not nor am I ever likely to be.

I have defended his right to an opinion (plenty of religious activists have been preaching unacceptably hateful diatribe for years to Muslim youngsters without hindrance until recently) and I don't like to see him, or anyone else, bullied/banned etc for daring to counter these people.

Sometimes I think he has a point to make (though he is invariably too intense in the way he makes it), sometimes I disagree with him completely and sometimes I feel he is just not listening to anyone else's point of view at all.

I presume you Hitesh and you Anish are both Asian (forgive me if I'm wrong) and I cannot recall having anything but respect for or interest in what you have to say both in this general interest sector and in the football sector.

Indeed, if I knew you I am sure I'd be happy to buy you a drink and enjoy your company.

I've posted this thread because I think it is a current topic of interest and have voiced my own view pretty simplistically because it seems polite (as the instigator) to offer a view.

My opinion, as I've outlined, is that all people should have a choice of who they marry. It is interesting to note the difference between arranged and forced marriages - discourse such as this does give a greater understanding of the way different cultures work.

Indeed I can't see there is much difference between the way introductions are made by families (and the choice left to the couples) and the way Western families organise parties/social gatherings so their offspring meet the right people (not that such manipulating, however well intentioned, does not go dramatically wrong).

Forced marriages seem indefensible but, like I say, what does the forum think. Is there anyone around to defend forced marriages?

I was only joking and im sorry if i have offended you! I totally understand what you are saying and honestly, i was joking!

I think its good to bring up comments/issues like this! Creates a good discussion and educates people in different view points that they might not have explored! I have always maintained that these threads can be on here and if people dont like them, then dont read them!

Once again Thracian, sorry if i offended you!

[Thracian]

Apology accepted with pleasure.

[cisono]

With arranged marriages you aren't forced - it's your decision. You can't confuse the 2 - arranged marriages are completely different to forced marriages (which are more common in the Muslim community than anywhere else). It is important to understand the difference - yes forced marriages are more likely to end in failure because neither party has had a choice, but it's not the same with arranged marriages.

OK, I see your point, but don't you think that the distinction is not that clear-cut at times?

I am thinking of a friend who got married in his teenage years (perhaps 18) through an "arranged" marriage. Although it technically wasn't a forced marriage (in the sense of someone holding a gun in between his shoulder blades), he got married to please his brother and aunt (his parents having died a while earlier) and, in his own account, "didn't know what he was getting himself into". He thinks his marriage never had a chance to work and, at 32, is unhappy in spite of the two children they have had. He believes that he and his wife have nothing in common and never have had.

I think this is a sad situation... would it have happened if he had not been ehmmm "strongly encouraged" to get married to that girl? We will never know, but chances are...

[Dunc]

Touching back on the muslim/islamic angle, there was a very interesting programme about living as a muslim in the modern world. The presenter (an British Asian I believe) visited Morroco, Indonesia, Malaysia, Turkey, Pakistan, India etc.

The Battle for Islam

I would be interested to know if Lush saw it as it should have brought up some interesting points contrary to what he believes is modern islam.

As I watched the programme it struck me that many of the traditional muslims appear to feel threatened by the modern view of islam & Sharia Law that (appeared from the programme) to be a fluid, evolving belief system and not definitive that certain sides of the media wish to portray.

In many ways, it was through the traditional muslims who appeared scared of change that you can see how radical imams can prey on this vunerability, even though the huge majority of scholars and clerics and muslim population live happily with a modern viable view of their religion.

On the subject of arranged marriages, it appeared to be prevalent in the countries where this was filmed, although it wasn't looked upon unfavourably or forced.

[Rincewind]

I don't want to dwell on the subject and I'm no expert on Islam, but the way I see it is that the extremists have broken away from the majority of Muslims and are trying to convert moderate Muslims with their own version of the Qoran. Whatever the scriptures true meaning, I believe it is dangerous for right-wing and anti Muslim groups to back up the extremists version just to scare and convert vulnerable young Brits instead of discrediting what the extremists are saying. That was the point I and one or two others was trying to get across to Lush.

On arranged marriages, the British Monachy have been doing it for centuries, and most of our aristocracy class marry within their class circle, often meeting at hunts or the Queens garden parties. They have no contact with the likes of you and me so a Lady so and so is unlikely to meet Mr Right down at the Walkers stadium or in the Counting House before the game, The higher class don't see a problem The only time man and wife see each other is across the breakfast table when the hi-light of the conversation is 'pass the HP darling.' Servents attend to their every need and when it is time to breed the Lord visits the Lady boidoir in the West Wing to do the buisness.

Cynical? Me? Never. .