Football Specials - the good old days

[Voll Blau]

2 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Tbh that sentence alone is why I can't ever really see it happening again en masse in this country. 

 

I read that sentence and I just hear "dickheads wrecking shit" and I AM a football fan. If you're some government health and safety exec, a chief of police or the CEO of a railway you're going to have nightmares about "lads letting off some steam" on your train. 

 

I know you've got some utopian vision where it's just you and your mates and the only antisocial thing you do is sing a bit loudly, leave a few beer cans in the aisle and piss on the toilet seat but you're in massive denial if you think that's all it would be. 

 

There's so many willy pullers in this country. I mean, christ, the state of the city centres on Saturday at 10. THAT is who'd be on your football specials. 

 

I'm well aware that you're gonna get a mixed bag aboard anything like this. For context, the fines for any potential damage were huge on the ones we went on abroad, with the supporters' trust which organised it having to foot the bill if there was any vandalism (even for something as minor as a sticker being put up anywhere). That created a good self-policing culture aboard, though I accept you wouldn't get that here initially when the concept has been alien to any English fan born in the past four or five decades.

 

I think you'd be talking serious ID checks at Leicester station and plenty of BTP patrolling the carriages initially, but over time that would change as it becomes less of a novelty. Like you say though the question is how much shit the authorities would tolerate before it (hopefully) got to that stage.

 

The selling point to the cops/rail operators has to be that lads like that are acting like dickheads on service trains as it is. At least with this you could keep an eye on them and (from the authorities' point of view, I'm far from saying I agree with this) it's "only" other football fans getting inconvenienced if a few lads who can't handle their ale start acting up.

[worth_the_wait]

22 hours ago, Spudulike said:

They might've got you to a ground in one piece not always on the way back as those that went to Stoke City in '74 will testify. 

In terms of safety, it pretty much mirrored the general state of football hooliganism from the late 1960's to the mid 1980's.

 

Up until the mid/late 70's, you usually had to look after yourself.   The police organisation varied from 'little' to 'non-existent'.    Lots of away matches were dodgy, no matter how you went ... unless there was a really good mob of you.

 

By the late 1970's, most of the police had got their act together ... and it was generally much safer.   They kept you in the ground, and you got proper escorts at places like Newcastle, Leeds and Man Utd.   Which was handy, as otherwise you would've been beaten to a pulp after a match.

 

At other grounds, the police just let you straight out ... and you found your own way back to the station.   Places like Wolves, West Brom and Villa ended up being the most "interesting", as there wasn't really any proper segregation.   We usually had good numbers to those places, so we could look after ourselves, without having to ask the copper for protection.

 

Going on the service train was generally more risky.   I never had any serious hassle on the special, although the walk back to Cardiff's Ninian Park halt looked a bit dodgy in the early 80's.

[Finnegan]

42 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

 

I'm well aware that you're gonna get a mixed bag aboard anything like this. For context, the fines for any potential damage were huge on the ones we went on abroad, with the supporters' trust which organised it having to foot the bill if there was any vandalism (even for something as minor as a sticker being put up anywhere). That created a good self-policing culture aboard, though I accept you wouldn't get that here initially when the concept has been alien to any English fan born in the past four or five decades.

 

I think you'd be talking serious ID checks at Leicester station and plenty of BTP patrolling the carriages initially, but over time that would change as it becomes less of a novelty. Like you say though the question is how much shit the authorities would tolerate before it (hopefully) got to that stage.

 

The selling point to the cops/rail operators has to be that lads like that are acting like dickheads on service trains as it is. At least with this you could keep an eye on them and (from the authorities' point of view, I'm far from saying I agree with this) it's "only" other football fans getting inconvenienced if a few lads who can't handle their ale start acting up.

 

But we don't have that self policing culture here, we don't have mass fan groups or collective organisation of football fans. The Germans have enormous supporter groups and a culture of fan ownership and responsibility for their football on many levels. We don't have that. 

 

We have a culture of individualism and selfishness, we have a culture of I Do What I Want And So What You Can't Stop Me. 

 

That's why football fans mixing with the general populace on regular trains IS the policing. Because they're diluted, because they're often if not usually outnumbered and because societal pressure at least reigns them in somewhat. 

 

When they're out in force together on a special train they're told is basically their own private Lads Lads Lads club and they've got free licence to be Football Lads, they're not going to keep themselves in check. And there's no Head Boy of some supporter group to give them the eye and get them to wind their necks in for everyone's benefit. 

 

I don't doubt it can work in Germany, I don't doubt it's great fun when you're on the inside. But the sad fact of life is we can't have nice things in this country for a reason. 

 

Seriously, look at the country's reaction to covid and its restrictions and tell me we don't have ample dickheads ruining it for everyone.