Knighton Matt Posted 4 August 2005 Posted 4 August 2005 It is like watching a nation busily engaged in heaping up its own funeral pyre.... As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding. Like the Roman, I seem to see “the River Tiber foaming with much blood.†Enoch Powell (1968)The day after making this warning statement in 1968, on the consequences of large-scale immigration into Britain, Powell was dropped from the shadow cabinet. However his quote is pretty chilling in the context of today's climate. So, do you think Powell was a prophet, or just a daft racist?
Hitesh Posted 4 August 2005 Posted 4 August 2005 I think that he may have had the right ideas to CONTROL imigration but the way he went about them were very strong and were seen as racist. I dont know enough about the guy to call him a racist or to quesiton his policies but from what i do know he was just a bit over the top about the way he went about things.
Hitesh Posted 4 August 2005 Posted 4 August 2005 Edit: Sorry...i went to edit my original post but must have pressed quote instead!
Steven Posted 4 August 2005 Posted 4 August 2005 Enoch Powell (1968)The day after making this warning statement in 1968, on the consequences of large-scale immigration into Britain, Powell was dropped from the shadow cabinet. However his quote is pretty chilling in the context of today's climate. So, do you think Powell was a prophet, or just a daft racist? 149970[/snapback] That quote is a bit like anything by Nostradamus. It can be interpreted in so many ways, and is, to suit so many people.
Thracian Posted 4 August 2005 Posted 4 August 2005 Enoch Powell (1968)The day after making this warning statement in 1968, on the consequences of large-scale immigration into Britain, Powell was dropped from the shadow cabinet. However his quote is pretty chilling in the context of today's climate. So, do you think Powell was a prophet, or just a daft racist? 149970[/snapback] It doesn't take a prophet to predict bloodshed over the clashing of ideologies. Such blood has been spilt for centuries (and demonstrates exactly why another approach is so important). The error was that his honestly held and honestly expressed point of view cost him his job. Do I believe George Galloway or Tony Benn (in times past) should lose their jobs because of their beliefs. Do I hell. It seems difficult to get the importance of this over. The point is that if anyone who has a controversial point of view is silenced then all you have left is yesmen or, put more bluntly, subjected people. Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Mugabe silenced people who expressed the wrong opinion. I don't necessarily agree with loads and loads of people talking about loads and loads of subjects. But a decent society will debate issues, not kill the speakers. That is why I keep trying to stress: The values we stand for are important and worth campaigning for. I actually wonder why I bother sometimes but at least I can rest happy that I've tried.
lush Posted 4 August 2005 Posted 4 August 2005 So, do you think Powell was a prophet, or just a daft racist? 149970[/snapback] Was it any different to now?
lush Posted 4 August 2005 Posted 4 August 2005 but from what i do know he was just a bit over the top about the way he went about things. 149973[/snapback] What was over the top about him?
Hitesh Posted 4 August 2005 Posted 4 August 2005 What was over the top about him? 150044[/snapback] When he made some of his speaches he wasnt interested about the party he represented and it was onyl for his own personal gain rather than for the interests of his country. I would like to know more about him though, because as i said, i dont know an awful lot bout him and just going by a few tv clips.
Hullfox Posted 4 August 2005 Posted 4 August 2005 Rather like Thracian says, I have an admiration for people who hold their views consistently throughout their political life like Powell, Benn, Thatcher and even Galloway. I don't in the main agree with everything they say but at least they are not like some of the more modern day MP's of all parties who appear to have sold out to popularity politics. Plus they tend to be very shrewd tactitions particularly in debating and can make mincemeat out of more senior figures.
Ultra Posted 4 August 2005 Posted 4 August 2005 Enoch Powell was not only a racist but a hypocrite. In the early 60s he actually ENCOURAGED immigration to fill job vacancies in the health service and transport industries. He was actually considered to be extremely intelligent and well-read by colleagues and political opponents alike. Therefore the ranting bigotry within his speech came as more of a shock. For those interested the full text of his speech is available here. The Tory leader of the time, Edward Heath, deserves credit for not pandering to this bigotry and for ensuring that Powell's views did not reflect those of the Conservative Party as a whole. Unfortunately, the present Tory leadership is somewhat less enlightened. However, it's paying the price for this in a series of general election defeats. Powell predicted racial harmony would be impossible. Events in Leicester and elsewhere have proved him wrong. He should stay in the obscurity he deserves!
Ultra Posted 4 August 2005 Posted 4 August 2005 Rather like Thracian says, I have an admiration for people who hold their views consistently throughout their political life like Powell, Benn, Thatcher and even Galloway.I don't in the main agree with everything they say but at least they are not like some of the more modern day MP's of all parties who appear to have sold out to popularity politics. Plus they tend to be very shrewd tactitions particularly in debating and can make mincemeat out of more senior figures. 150069[/snapback] Actually none of the four politicians you mentioned were actually that consistent during their political careers. All to some extent changed views in the light of events and/or expediency. For example, Powell originally supported large-scale immigration (as noted above) and Thatcher was part of the government which took us into what is now the European Union. But I share the sentiments expressed in the rest of the post. There are too many robots from all parties in the House of Commons who will meekly follow whatever line their leaders tell them to. They have no minds of their own and it's not healthy for our democracy.
lush Posted 5 August 2005 Posted 5 August 2005 Powell predicted racial harmony would be impossible. Events in Leicester and elsewhere have proved him wrong. 150086[/snapback] In the late 70`s, Leicester was very harmed by racial tensions. Now its completely different, bar occassional skirmishes. Elsewhere, thousands upon thousands of racially motivated incidents including murder have occured in britain, but its mainly harmoneous.
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