StriderHiryu

MARTI OUT

Do we need to get him, Mavididi and Fatawu into the same team at once? And if so who goes where?

I think in a few years time Monga will be a 10, a bit like Cole Palmer for Chelsea. But that's a tough position to play at his age, you need a few years match experience... usually. 

2 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Presume the coach won’t be happy to see us giving away cheap possession 

 

too much forcing when it’s not on 

This should be the big difference between Marti and Enzo. Enzo did not want to take risks, Marti will. He absolutely will be annoyed about giving it away cheaply, but we've looked better in this half and whilst Koln made subs, it's because we have been more direct IMO. 

But you are right to say we've forced it too much. All part of the learning process!

3 minutes ago, AjcW said:

The audible "Noooooo" from Marti is wonderful

He's also saying that because Daka passed it backwards. I can only passively watch the game but I can see that he's got a bit of a job on to coach out of the players their nature to dwell on the ball and take it slowly, he wants them to get it forwards much faster.

So yeah Daka was shit here, but the manager wanted him to take more of a risk going the other way too. 

@Trav Le Bleu

Joking aside about the false goalkeeper, a number of teams across Europe are experimenting with the GK position. Even Mourihno has said that one day soon he expects a manager will take off his goalkeeper and replace them with an outfield player, win the game and will be called a genius. Man City U21's are playing their GK pushed right up to the halfway line at times!

I saw this at the end of last season and wished I could have seen the game. Sounds amazingly fun to watch if nothing else!

https://www.soccerodd.com/news/paderborn-goalkeeper-plays-as-right-winger-in-frantic-final-push

3 hours ago, chuddy8 said:

not being cynical but weren't you very encouraged initially by RVN?

Yep and that aged like Milk.

I don't think any manager was keeping our squad up last season, but RVN gave up after just a few games. He then fell out with some players, and the whole think was a funeral march. 

This season because of the quality of the squad relative to the league, we should be getting results regardless of who is in charge. So then it comes down to if the players buy into the system or not. I suspect that they will do, but we still have no idea who wants to be at the club and who can be bothered, and that could show on the pitch if we are not careful. All the more reason really to play the young guns. 

21 hours ago, Bordersfox said:

Interesting watching that friendly after seeing @StriderHiryu youtube video about Cifuentes preferred style. 

 

In terms of risk there was more than one occasion where there were huge spaces behind Hamza as he pushed forward.  I wonder if he'll prefer at least one very mobile CB (Okoli, who I thought pressed well yesterday) so we can cover that off a bit.  Even if that player is not so comfortable on the ball. 

 

We haven't seen much of Coulibaly but again, he's very mobile.  Is he injured or something (sorry if this has been covered elsewhere) as I am surprised he didn't get any minutes yesterday.  

It can happen on both sides. There were times where both Hamza and Luke Thomas were inverting into an attacking midfield position at the same time!

But Marti is no idiot, I don't think he will invert both players like that against teams with fast wingers. He beat Leeds 4-0 at home when they had Summerville, Gnoto, James, etc so he understands the game well. That said, I do think we will concede quite a few goals similar to the way Spurs conceded under Ange by being reckless. But remember that in Scotland, Ange crushed it, because his squad was so superior to everyone else's, and as we saw 2 seasons ago, our squad is by and large too good for this division. 

You are right about having fast and mobile CB's (and fullbacks) though. That's why Ange signed Micky van de Ven and utilised Romero, because both are super quick. So when Vestergaard plays, that will be a vulnerability we have. I don't think Vestergaard will be the starting CB, but in a 46 game season he will get games, and I think you can still use him against teams that sit back and don't have too many fast players. 

19 hours ago, kingfox said:

As @StriderHiryu pointed out in his analysis, on yesterday’s evidence, Marti clearly wants at least one of his CB’s to have long range passing ability, someone able to switch play and get our wingers in 1 vs 1 scenarios. 
 

After doing some statistical digging, at QPR, both Steve Cook and Morgan Fox ranked in the top 10 for long passes per90. While they both ranked in the top 3 for long passes completed per90. 
 

Will be interesting to see who operates this role under Marti, or whether he uses both our CB’s in this manner.  

Coady was used in the first half, Vestergaard in the second. Nelson was doing it against OHL and Faes was effective doing it to find Mavididi under Enzo. With the QPR players, that came about because Marti was telling them to pass the ball long.

1 hour ago, Scotch said:

I thought the "free man" was Thomas.... was it maybe switching? 

 

I was watching Luke and he was doing the same. LB position, CM position, winger, striker....He was all over the place. 

It varies depending on which side we attack down. And whichever one went, the other would usually fill in a little further behind, or as part of a back 3. 

Tune in on Tuesday! There was a lot to study from this game alone, and it's the sort of thing that will vary across the season!

Show Tacticar some love!

@Stadt that's a really good point. It depends on how the team as a whole functions though, as if the press is effective enough you can compensate for a lack of physicality, in this division at least.

In the Premier League, there's a reason why CDM's have gone for so much money. Players like Caicedo, Rodri and Rice (even if Arteta changed his position) are worth so much is because they are cool and composed on the ball, but also physically dominant and can put in those tackles.

16 minutes ago, Scotch said:

I actually think Ayew might do well in this system as the false 9 but hopefully as a backup option. 

 

Hamza is an interesting one. He can play several positions that would make hime a candidate for that free man role but as @StriderHiryu said, that role takes football intelligence and that IMO is what holds Hamza back. 

Given we are in the Championship, sometimes the physical approach is better than the technical one. As you'll see in the video, QPR used Jimmy Dunne effectively, and used his physicality to find him for headers frequently. Hamza has the engine and aggression to get into good positions, so it's possible.

Let's keep an eye on the preseason matches to see how exactly Marti sets up and who is used where. We should see quite a few players used in different roles. Even in the Dream Team there were a number of subtle tweaks made over the years, which gave them different dimensions to their attack. 

 MARTI PARTY! 

BEND THE KNEE 

14 minutes ago, tinpot_fox said:

What happens if we are up are players who are faster than ours?

That’s where our team needs an overhaul. If you want to aggressively press, play a high line and attack the opposition we need much faster players. This manager used a really young team in Sweden to facilitate that. If the opposition is faster and stronger, this style won’t work. 

If the manager plays Okoli, Nelson, Fatawu, Monga, Mavididi, etc his style should work. Players like Reid and Ayew did do their defensive work but they lack the speed to play regularly in a 433 / 343. 

That said it’s horses for courses. If the opposition themselves lack pace, then slower players aren’t such an issue. Reid under Marco Silva was effective as either an attacking midfielder or winger when making the rotations we’ll probably see under Cifuentes. Vestergaard was too slow and immobile for the Premier League but against bus parkers he can still do a job. 
 

I hope and expect those players to be squad options instead of first team though. Hansi Flick at Barcelona transformed that team by relying on the young players for similar reasons.