smudgerfox

So Castagne and Justin for Chilwell - sound business, strengthening and deepening the squad. Fofana - excellent spot. BUT Tielemans was already here - you can’t count him as smart recruitment by Brendan. Perez and Praet are both good players - but neither fit into the BR playing system and he’s made it perfectly clear he doesn’t rate them. To recruit two players - at about £50-million I think - who the manager doesn’t want to use is what I would call shambolic recruitment. Last summer was a disaster. No other word for it. Four players still to hit consistent PL standards but clogging up the squad and preventing us taking in any new arrivals. There’s a discussion to be had about each one of them - but none of them made any kind of significant contribution in the PL last season. And only Daka made any contribution at all. That is shambolic and to take a “these things happen” approach makes no sense. Congerton was head of recruitment, Congerton is BR’s man, and there is no escaping the responsibility. If that’s not convincing enough, Bertrand knows BR from Chelsea days, his agent is at a company which employs Rodgers’ son. There is literally no excuse for not knowing how useless Bertrand would be and for putting him on such a high salary. When you add in the fact that Celtic fans are saying Rodgers’ reign followed a similar pattern, it beggars belief that some fans are disputing that poor recruitment is at the heart of our current problems.

I do think a big part of the Brendan problem is a lack of pragmatism - making maximum use of the players he has - instead trying to be sub Man City - probably in the mistaken belief he’s a candidate to succeed Pep. What makes Man City Man City is the quality of player they have and the depth of that quality in the squad. With that playing strength - the formation and playing style is barely relevant. So Brendan is scornful of Ihenacho for instance, because his stats for ball retention are poor, even though the guy’s goals and assists could have made the last couple of seasons more successful. Our centre backs are asked to play in a style which simply doesn’t suit them - high line, front foot (ie committing themselves early) which is difficult enough for high quality defenders, almost impossible for the kind of mediocrities (Fofana apart) which wash up on our shores. It’s perhaps best typified by Brendan preferring a formation 4-2-3-1) which requires two fast, box to box wingers, despite only having one in the squad. When you watch the likes of Brighton, Fulham, Brentford, Palace - the overall underlying quality of their individual players is no better than ours - but they are more comfortable and more thrilling because the playing style is chosen to suit their players and not imposed on them regardless, as it is at Leicester.

Exactly right. If the club signs wingers, strikers and God forbid even more central midfielders with any incoming funds it really will have signed its own death warrant. The defence needs urgently addressing - centre back - at least one starter - and a naturally left footed left wing back. We cannot move forward until we stop conceding two goals a game - and this isn’t a new problem that suddenly cropped up…

Agreed. Friday October 25/2019, Southampton 0 Leicester 9. Starting line up: Schmeichel; Ricardo; Evans; Soyuncu; Chilwell; NDidi; Perez; Tielemans; Maddison; Barnes; Vardy. Clearly shows how little the starting 11 has evolved since then - mostly of necessity (sales or injury) and how little any of those players who played on Saturday as well have improved, how little the team set up has improved. We were second in the table that night and rightly feared.

A good thread . The lack of stability is definitely a factor, Steve Walsh left at the worst possible time as did Congerton. No one has stayed too long . But last summers recruitment defied a lot of our trusted methods. The “personal” problems of Soumare just didn’t happen under Walsh because players ‘ likelihood of settling in was considered as. a factor before we paid a huge transfer fee and agreed a high salary. How they would fit into the team /squad was another factor which was considered beforehand. We have so many fringe players who simply don’t fit Brendan’s preferred line up - Vestergaard, Perez, Praet, Ihenacho. It makes me wonder if the manager’s style can only succeed with players of Fofana quality and we can’t afford a 25 man squad of players at that level - as he well knows. But he won’t change the style to suit the players he has. watching the likes of Fulham, Brentford and Palace on MOTD last night - I saw less wealthy clubs playing simple, instinctive football which is both entertaining and wins you points. Earlier at the KP I watched a team wracked with self doubt, overthinking and despite the talent on the pitch - completely unable to turn possession into into chances let alone goals. No recruitment is going to overcome such a creative paralysis…

We were out muscled in every part of the pitch. Our defenders by their strikers, our forwards by their defenders, and in midfield. We are physically weak which is one reason why we defend set pieces so poorly. Are we even fit? I watched Saints regularly surround a player of ours in possession and rob the ball off them. I saw nothing remotely equivalent the other way, despite the managers claim that we are a pressing team. I saw no leadership either on the pitch or on the touch line. No determination to turn things around, no mutual encouragement. Posters in here talk about us being a top side on paper. But we don’t play on paper. This side, particularly this defence, is capable of getting us relegated. The Southampton defence has been completely revamped this season with new, young players. Despite that, it looked far better organised than ours -which contained experienced international defenders.

How is it tight to avoid having more players than you can utilise? It’s just common sense . Even if they’re loaned out to Torquay or Torino - you’re still going to be paying a high percentage of their wages, paying out money which is of no benefit to the clubs performance on the field …

Well for a start the £80-million is your valuation - there’s no real way of knowing whether that’s right Even if you are - you only get to realise that value if you sell…. And in the meantime you are paying out wages to players turning out for Fleetwood and Forest Green - they may come back Premier-ready they may not. most do not.

But you’re only looking at the successes. What about the wages we’ve paid to players who’ve got nowhere near commanding a transfer fee? That’s the true cost of the policy….

No I understand your point. My point is - does it make sense to wait so long for a player to make the squad? How many outfield players are likely to break through after multiple loans? And are we assessing at the right time? Surely we didn't need Soumare at all if we knew KDH was going to break through so spectacularly? But Brendan assessed KDH in pre-season (the usual practice) by which time Soumare had already arrived.

You can't stop him but you can offer a more attractive career path. Iversen and KDH are obvious exceptions but so many of these players disappear without trace on loan. I was watching out for McAteer at Forest Green, he barely played ten minutes for them.

I also think another failure has been at development squad level. I don't know what caused Beaglehole's departure but he seemed to me to be doing a good job. Dare I mention Calvin Bassey? One minute our team is crying out for a quick, front-foot, strong, left-footed central defender and the next minute I'm watching Rangers in the Europa League Final and the player of the match has come from our Academy. Before the commentators mentioned his time at Leicester, I was thinking he's just what we need alongside Fofana in a 4 or Evans and Fofana in a 3. Who is making these decisions? Where are the young defenders (under 21s) who can bolster the squad without adding to the overall number? What's the point in having them out on loan until they're 23 and having to earn a place in the squad on merit against big money experienced signings?

"challenge" not "displace"

Yes there's probably a word for it in PR. But essentially you say you're not going to do something which: a) raises the question that you might do that very thing; b) that you would be justified in doing that very thing but due to your own moderate reasonableness have decided not to. You get to say you're hard done to and to praise yourself for not doing the thing that others might do. Win. Win.

The suggestion that we are looking to displace the wealthy six is a massive red herring because no one expects that, What we expect is a side that plays to the sum of its parts - and we have in many ways a very impressive squad right now…and we expect basics like defence and set pieces to be taken care of. And we expect our team to see out winning positions. If all those basics had been addressed I feel we could have had at least one season of Champions League and more progress.in the Europa League …

A red herring is a false trail

Yes but we have one point and have conceded 6

Possibly - but there are 14 other Premier managers who could say the same. If Manure dont watch it they could be out of the top 6 this season which could mean an opening for another club. It’s a complete red herring - we dont expect to beat the top six but there’s no point playing them if you give up before the kick off.

Not sure of the relevance of David Pleat - but there is the basis for real concern Firstly we have a relegation defence. Injuries were blamed last season - we now have the players that we missed so much and we’ve conceded six in two. It seems our defence is not going to be improved by new personnel so we’re back to Brendan and his team providing a structure that makes us more secure with existing players, (he’s already said we lack the profile of player to defend set pieces). I have to say.having watched the defence deteriorate in the last couple of seasons, I have no confidence this will happen. Secondly we have a manager who has effectively given up. His public statements about lack of new arrivals and the consequential need to reduce expectations are not calculated to inspire the players he has. He is effectively saying they are not good enough to continue the development of the club. So an unmotivated manager with a demotivated squad and a defence which a Sunday League side could score goals against. A perfect recipe for relegation.

Our defence is relegation standard even with Fofana and Evans in it - we concede two goals a game and have been doing for well over a year - once the attack malfunctions- we hit relegation form ….

Is it really that simple though? Unless you want to have an argument every time we move for a player - if the manager says he wants a player doesn’t the recruitment team just move hell and high water to get him? Or if you want to extend a players contract then he’ll ask for a pay rise. And the going rate will be what the high earners got…. So let’s just imagine BR said he wants Bertrand (there’s a strong enough connection to assume that) - and Rudkin says his wage and contract demands make him too expensive a risk. Then what happens? There aren’t too many attacking left full backs/wing backs with top level experience out there. I think the club grinds to a halt under those circumstances- a recruitment team unable to meet the demands of a successful and ambitious manager …a manager unable to develop the team he wants. With the benefit of hindsight we’d want Rudkin to veto that particular deal but you can see how relationships could quickly sour - especially with BR s right hand man as head of recruitment…

This is it. How good is the team he surrounds himself with? What is Congerton’s record? What has Kolo been doing while our defence has been falling apart? Are they chosen to be yes men ? Or are they just mates who Brendan feels comfortable with? Is he capable of looking any of them in the eye and saying you’re not doing it and I’m bringing someone else in? These are people who stood silent while we brought in Ryan Bennett, Bertrand, Vestergaard, Soumare, Praet, Perez - all of whom have failed in their own ways.

The forum is full of amateur observers. There were plenty of reasons to doubt his suitability - he’s not exactly the mobile and assertive centre back BR tends to enthuse over. He played for Southampton - proud owners for many years of one of the Premier League’s worst defences. Set against that Kasper must have had a good awareness of his strengths and weaknesses - and for the recruitment team - remember headed by Brendan’s right hand man - he wasn’t exactly hidden away and difficult to assess. Most of us realised the club was up against it after Fofana’s injury and that Vestergaard was perhaps the best we could expect in the circumstances. He at least seemed a trade up on Ryan Bennett. But we are not paid six figure sums (and more) to get these things right. Brendan and his team are. And as with many of the decisions we’re going back over now - they either needed to say Vestergaard is the wrong man - here’s a better idea that will cost about the same - or accept the signing and play a style that allowed Vestergaard to play to his maximum. It is the failure of Brendan and his team to do either of those which has left us in this mess - players the managers doesn’t want but whose confidence and reputation has deteriorated to a level where they are difficult to sell.

I agree with this. You could also add his very early reaction to Soumare to try and turn him into a box to box player. His stubborn refusal to recognise and integrate the talent of Kelechi - despite a fantastic goal and assist record. And our full backs are selected more for their ability to attack than to defend. While I accept that football is no longer a game where players have a single position and a single function - the fact is we have a lot of good players who are very good at what they do but don’t get much chance to do idespite his having been here for three seasons I still don’t believe I’ve seen Ayoze Perez play his best position for us once.