Interesting view on 4-5-1

[Frenzied]

Just read this view on 4-5-1 by Don Howe on the BBC's website. Just wondering what people's views are and is Leicester City capable of adapting it the way Howe describes.

Formation game

By Don Howe

Former Arsenal and England coach

The trend for using the 4-5-1 formation in the Premiership this season is simply explained.

It is the old story of copying successful systems and successful teams.

Whether it is the World Cup, the Premiership or La Liga, coaches will always emulate formations that work.

So if, as we had in the last World Cup, you have a team like Brazil who played 4-3-3 and adapted their tactics around Ronaldo, Ronaldinho and Rivaldo, people will naturally follow.

If you then get a team like Chelsea introducing the same formation, others will look at tapes and adapt accordingly.

The problem is that they will copy the formation without having the players to do it well.

Other Premiership teams have not got Hernan Crespo or Didier Drogba, Arjen Robben and Damien Duff - let alone the three Rs from Brazil.

The 4-3-3 does not actually differ that much from 4-5-1 formation.

In theory, if you have got the players to play 4-3-3 then you are getting three good players forward with a lot more strength in midfield.

But if the wingers or front players play deep, you effectively change 4-3-3, which is an attacking formation, into 4-5-1, a defensive one.

And with one striker you often find him isolated. That is why teams are not scoring.

Teams have to think about the service to a front man to keep him involved for 90 minutes.

If they expect the front player to be a target man or someone to run in behind the defence, then he will become tired very quickly.

They need to ask: "When do they want him to come into the game?"

Good teams like Chelsea and Barcelona do not involve their front man until the middle third of play.

Barcelona last season are an excellent example of a team playing with three front players. They had Samuel Eto'o up front with Ronaldinho and Ludovic Giuly playing either side of him.

There is no way that Barcelona played defensively and they were masters at bringing Eto'o into play at the right times.

The other thing to consider is that other coaches will look at Chelsea's formation and say that they have to match the numbers.

If you have got Claude Makelele, Frank Lampard and Michael Essien facing you in midfield and you have only got two central midfielders, they will start to control the game because they have a extra man.

That is the reason why Manchester United have got three in central midfield.

It used to be Roy Keane and Paul Scholes, but now you have Darren Fletcher too. If you change the midfield, it is going to have an affect on your front players.

You cannot play two up so you might play three forward players, that means one of the strikers might pull wide.

Wayne Rooney played wide left against Arsenal in the FA Cup final last year and he got the man of the match award!

Now people are saying that he does not like it, but that is just trying to find an excuse for his behaviour.

Brazil, Barcelona and Chelsea have been successful with three attacking players, but other teams cannot match them for talent in those areas.

The problems lie in trying to adapt existing players to play in a certain way.

Whether people like it or not, this is the future of football.

But to turn 4-5-1 into 4-3-3 succesfully, you need the right men for the job.

Source

[supedaj]

Interesting report - but doubt it would help us really. I dont think Hammil or Sylla or good enough to push upfront, and towards the area. They would more than likely try and improve on their wing play, getting further out into the corner and knocking some crosses in. Maybe Hume would be a good prospect for this type of role (is he left or right footed?)

We need people who can alter between wing play and help push foward as centre fwd when required.

[Manwell Pablo]

Interesting report - but doubt it would help us really. I dont think Hammil or Sylla or good enough to push upfront, and towards the area. They would more than likely try and improve on their wing play, getting further out into the corner and knocking some crosses in. Maybe Hume would be a good prospect for this type of role (is he left or right footed?)

We need people who can alter between wing play and help push foward as centre fwd when required.

The type of Formation describer there is not the one Levein looks for when he plays 4-5-1, he's simply looking to flood the midfield not get men foward. there is no way he would play 4-3-3 4-5-1 style formation even though it would work with Hume Hammond and De Vries ( Doesn't matter if Hume is left footed, Ronney plays there very well) He just wouldnt play 3 strikers

[Frenzied]

I think it could work. In certain situations we could contain a team playing the defensive 4-5-1, wear them down and then revert to the 4-3-3 and try and grab a couple of goals. It also seems quite useful if all we are doing is playing defensively. If we concede, it's a system that can easily be switched to attack.

I wouldn't mind see a 4-3-3 with Hume, De Vries and Hammond (Hughes could also be employed in this sense). It would be important to have a good holding midfielder though - Is either Gudjonnson or Kisnorbo up to it though? Two holding midfielders could work too and would allow the fullbacks to get forward.

[supedaj]

yep I agree - we'd be better off with BOTH Kisnorbo and Joey in midfield, maybe with Hughes alongside them. Only then can we say we have sufficient cover in midfield. Hume, De Vries and Elvis up front - that'd be great! ;-)

[Ric Flair]

If we'd played with Hume and Elvis on the wings instead of Hamill and Sylla against Wolves then we would of looked more dangerous going forward, I was calling for that formation a few weeks ago like Chelsea play but it just depends on how attacking minded the two wingers are.

I think at the minute our best bet would be wingbacks.

Douglas

Nils

McCarthy

Gerrbrand/Stearman

Tiatto

Williams

Gudjonsson

Hughes

Maybury

Hume

MDV

[Manwell Pablo]

If we'd played with Hume and Elvis on the wings instead of Hamill and Sylla against Wolves then we would of looked more dangerous going forward, I was calling for that formation a few weeks ago like Chelsea play but it just depends on how attacking minded the two wingers are.

I think at the minute our best bet would be wingbacks.

Douglas

Nils

McCarthy

Gerrbrand/Stearman

Tiatto

Williams

Gudjonsson

Hughes

Maybury

Hume

MDV

ppff To Defensive for my liking, lacks width a bit of width as well, Tiattos lacks a bit of pace to be playing on the left by himself and Maybury would get found out of postion, where as I would trust Stearmen to Cover him sort of, I wouldnt trust Nissa covering Tiatto. Williams would never get back as well.

[lush]

How about:

douglas

maybury gerrbrand johanson sheehan

.....................kisnorbo......................

sylla................hughes..............hamill

.......................hume........................

....................hammond.....................

[Ric Flair]

How about:

douglas

maybury gerrbrand johanson sheehan

.....................kisnorbo......................

sylla................hughes..............hamill

.......................hume........................

....................hammond.....................

Horrible.

No Williams or Joey??????

[lush]

Horrible.

No Williams or Joey??????

williams and joey arnt potential premiership players.

[Ric Flair]

williams and joey arnt potential premiership players.

I'd argue that Williams has the potential to play in the premiership, teams think so aswell as there were a number of scouts watching him last season.

Kisnorbo certainly doesn't!!!

[Gené and Tonic]

I'd argue that Williams has the potential to play in the premiership, teams think so aswell as there were a number of scouts watching him last season.

Kisnorbo certainly doesn't!!!

tbh you don't know that yet.

[Ric Flair]

tbh you don't know that yet.

From what i've seen of him he's distinctively average and Hearts fans were pissing themselves when we signed him.

He's a decent enough squad player but if Lush is claiming Joey isn't good enough for the premiership (who has been immense this season) then Kisnorbo most certainly isn't.

[lush]

I'd argue that Williams has the potential to play in the premiership, teams think so aswell as there were a number of scouts watching him last season.

Kisnorbo certainly doesn't!!!

Ok Ric, describe williams potential premiership ability? Wheres the scouts now?

I would say kisnorbo has more potential, but i havnt seen enough quite yet.

[lush]

From what i've seen of him he's distinctively average and Hearts fans were pissing themselves when we signed him.

He's a decent enough squad player but if Lush is claiming Joey isn't good enough for the premiership (who has been immense this season) then Kisnorbo most certainly isn't.

Joey is an extremely average championship CM player. V blackpool, he was 20 yards out with the goal in sight, and sh!t it, passed it wide instead. All the fans were shouting SHOOT, oh dear. Lamps, murphy, even izzet would`ve tried a shot. Joey wont finish the season whilst kisnorbo is fit. IMO craig sees kiso and hughes being the mid 2.

[Ric Flair]

Ok Ric, describe williams potential premiership ability? Wheres the scouts now?

I would say kisnorbo has more potential, but i havnt seen enough quite yet.

Man City watched Williams alot last season in both Keegan and Pearce's reign as manager. This season i've not heard anything but that doesn't mean he's not being watched, infact that was a rumour another premiership club wanted him in the summer.

His potential premiership ability is that he is the best passer at the club and one of the best in the league. His vision is superb and if we played to his strengths more then he'd be one of the best players in the league. He is starting to get more tenacious just like Levein wants him to do and if we can get him involved in the game for the whole 90 minutes then that question you've asked will answer itself.

As Levein said earlier in the season, Gareth Williams is technically the best player we have at the club and he wants to convert him in to a box to box midfielder so that we can utilise his ability in the style of play we use.

Kisnorbo won't be anything more than an average player who does the simple things well but as for talent he's short of a few things. I'm sure he'll battle well for us though.

[Ric Flair]

Joey is an extremely average championship CM player. V blackpool, he was 20 yards out with the goal in sight, and sh!t it, passed it wide instead. All the fans were shouting SHOOT, oh dear. Lamps, murphy, even izzet would`ve tried a shot. Joey wont finish the season whilst kisnorbo is fit. IMO craig sees kiso and hughes being the mid 2.

So why has Joey been the best player on the pitch in about the last 3 or 4 matches then? Did you go the wolves game? He was the only player on both sides to come out of the game with any credit.

As for him shooting from 20 yards, there are alot of quality midfielders who aren't that deadly from 20 yards out. Gudjonsson often shoots from all angles and people usually slag him off for it!! Having said that he did hit an awesome 30 yarder against wolves and if it wasn't for a superb save by their goalie we would have won.

Gudjonsson was poor last season but this season he's a different player.

To be honest lush, i've never known a person to have as wild views as you. Nobody ever agrees with anything you say, so what does that tell you? Surely if you were right then somebody would agree with you on one of the many topics you raise?

[Manwell Pablo]

So why has Joey been the best player on the pitch in about the last 3 or 4 matches then? Did you go the wolves game? He was the only player on both sides to come out of the game with any credit.

As for him shooting from 20 yards, there are alot of quality midfielders who aren't that deadly from 20 yards out. Gudjonsson often shoots from all angles and people usually slag him off for it!! Having said that he did hit an awesome 30 yarder against wolves and if it wasn't for a superb save by their goalie we would have won.

Gudjonsson was poor last season but this season he's a different player.

To be honest lush, i've never known a person to have as wild views as you. Nobody ever agrees with anything you say, so what does that tell you? Surely if you were right then somebody would agree with you on one of the many topics you raise?

Personally I think Williams and Kisnorbo are both young, but I do feel Williams is by far the better player and has more potential. The Hearts fans did hate Kisnorbo and while he had a decent game against blackpool, not amazing decent, they are a league one team. He hasnt played alot of football in the championship but I would rate him as a squad player. I dont think you can seriously play Hammil on the left every game either Tiatto is a better player IMO. As well as the fact that De Vries has to play due to the fact he is the only striker we have who has scored this season.

[Manwell Pablo]

So why has Joey been the best player on the pitch in about the last 3 or 4 matches then? Did you go the wolves game? He was the only player on both sides to come out of the game with any credit.

As for him shooting from 20 yards, there are alot of quality midfielders who aren't that deadly from 20 yards out. Gudjonsson often shoots from all angles and people usually slag him off for it!! Having said that he did hit an awesome 30 yarder against wolves and if it wasn't for a superb save by their goalie we would have won.

Gudjonsson was poor last season but this season he's a different player.

To be honest lush, i've never known a person to have as wild views as you. Nobody ever agrees with anything you say, so what does that tell you? Surely if you were right then somebody would agree with you on one of the many topics you raise?

Think Joey has probabley has probabley been one of our best players this season. Can't blame him for not shooting his shots are normally struck with more Enthuasiem then direction any way. Saying Frank Lampard would shoot is unfair as he is a world class player.

[lush]

His potential premiership ability is that he is the best passer at the club and one of the best in the league. His vision is superb and if we played to his strengths more then he'd be one of the best players in the league. He is starting to get more tenacious just like Levein wants him to do and if we can get him involved in the game for the whole 90 minutes then that question you've asked will answer itself.

As Levein said earlier in the season, Gareth Williams is technically the best player we have at the club and he wants to convert him in to a box to box midfielder so that we can utilise his ability in the style of play we use.

Better than hughes, sylla maybury, stearman. Even if he was our best passer, wouldnt mean hes prem quality, were 15th in the championship.

Did you say superb

"IF".

I`d suggest craig meant at the time of saying that, not when hughes is available.

[lush]

So why has Joey been the best player on the pitch in about the last 3 or 4 matches then? Did you go the wolves game? He was the only player on both sides to come out of the game with any credit.

As for him shooting from 20 yards, there are alot of quality midfielders who aren't that deadly from 20 yards out. Gudjonsson often shoots from all angles and people usually slag him off for it!! Having said that he did hit an awesome 30 yarder against wolves and if it wasn't for a superb save by their goalie we would have won.

Gudjonsson was poor last season but this season he's a different player.

To be honest lush, i've never known a person to have as wild views as you. Nobody ever agrees with anything you say, so what does that tell you? Surely if you were right then somebody would agree with you on one of the many topics you raise?

From what i hear, no one, not even the wolves players played particuly well. I wasnt there, but if you say he gained credit, its only one game. I would say with joey, hes better than he was last season, but he was very awful last season, hes average champ now.

Joey is not scared normally of shooting, but V blackpool he had a good chance to shoot well, and craped himself. Qualified midfielders dont hesitate, they make the goalie work. If only he`d had his "hull" boots on, he nearly won us the game up there.

"wild views", is that because you dont like someone telling you they dont agree with you? Loads agree with me, i get regular pm`s and personal emails saying so, but there too scared (unlike me) to express themselves here for fear of moderated abuse. occassionally, juuuust occassionally, they make themselves heard. Its easy to critisize. Weve hardly spoken, yet you have a negative attitude towards me all of a sudden, why?

Why should someone agree with me as proof im right?

[Ric Flair]

From what i hear, no one, not even the wolves players played particuly well. I wasnt there, but if you say he gained credit, its only one game. I would say with joey, hes better than he was last season, but he was very awful last season, hes average champ now.

Joey is not scared normally of shooting, but V blackpool he had a good chance to shoot well, and craped himself. Qualified midfielders dont hesitate, they make the goalie work. If only he`d had his "hull" boots on, he nearly won us the game up there.

"wild views", is that because you dont like someone telling you they dont agree with you? Loads agree with me, i get regular pm`s and personal emails saying so, but there too scared (unlike me) to express themselves here for fear of moderated abuse. occassionally, juuuust occassionally, they make themselves heard. Its easy to critisize. Weve hardly spoken, yet you have a negative attitude towards me all of a sudden, why?

Why should someone agree with me as proof im right?

I haven't got a problem with people not agreeing with me because I know that some of my opinions are incorrect. I just don't like the way you conduct alot of your posts and have never seen anyone with as many far fetched views as you have, that's not a criticism your just one of a kind.

All I was saying is that I guarantee there would be more fans that would agree with me that Gudjonsson is looking a very good player this season. He was shocking last season but that hasn't clouded my judgement on how good he's become this season. I've only seen Leicester in all their home games and away at Wolves this season and i'd say that in every game other than the Luton one he bossed the midfield, something we desperately required from him last season.

Chin up.

[lush]

I haven't got a problem with people not agreeing with me because I know that some of my opinions are incorrect. I just don't like the way you conduct alot of your posts and have never seen anyone with as many far fetched views as you have, that's not a criticism your just one of a kind.

All I was saying is that I guarantee there would be more fans that would agree with me that Gudjonsson is looking a very good player this season. He was shocking last season but that hasn't clouded my judgement on how good he's become this season. I've only seen Leicester in all their home games and away at Wolves this season and i'd say that in every game other than the Luton one he bossed the midfield, something we desperately required from him last season.

Chin up.

You seem to think williams is premier class, thats far fetched a view to probably the entire world of football.

Also, if you can pm me with these far fethed views, i`d be happy to explain what they mean, alot of them are merely questions, and not personal views.

Do a poll then.

Question, is joey a very good player.

Very good players are Henry, owen, cambell, terrry, lampard, somehow i dont think joey will get into that relm of players.

Chin up.

[Manwell Pablo]

You seem to think williams is premier class, thats far fetched a view to probably the entire world of football.

Also, if you can pm me with these far fethed views, i`d be happy to explain what they mean, alot of them are merely questions, and not personal views.

Do a poll then.

Question, is joey a very good player.

Very good players are Henry, owen, cambell, terrry, lampard, somehow i dont think joey will get into that relm of players.

Chin up.

They are World Class players, you dont need to be world class to be classed as either a good player or a premeire ship player, also Gareth Williams is 23 years old and can look very good in the Chmpionship at times. to say he can't grow into a premeirship player is selling him short.

[Ric Flair]

You seem to think williams is premier class, thats far fetched a view to probably the entire world of football.

Also, if you can pm me with these far fethed views, i`d be happy to explain what they mean, alot of them are merely questions, and not personal views.

Do a poll then.

Question, is joey a very good player.

Very good players are Henry, owen, cambell, terrry, lampard, somehow i dont think joey will get into that relm of players.

Chin up.

I am not classing Gudjonsson as world class, i'm classing him as a very good championship player. It will be good to see him up against a premiership team in the cup this season. We haven't any world class players and probably won't for a very long time, I was merely saying that Gudjonsson's performances this season have been excellent and he'd be an asset to any club in this league perhaps higher.

As for Williams again I stated that premiership clubs have been watching him, now they know alot more about football than we do and if they rate him then it's pretty fair to say he's got the potential to play in the premiership. I rate Williams, as do many fans. Some don;t as they claim he doesn't turn it on for 90 minutes but if we play to his strengths and get him more involved then again he's going to be a very good player.