Benji Posted 26 December 2004 Posted 26 December 2004 Before i start i didn't go today (thankfully) as i was working but i've been to every other home game Anyway, Williams firstly as its simple.... what is the reason behind him not starting? it's seems crazy, nalis and joey on their day are very good players but they're just not consistent and points are being lost while we wait for them to pick up their form Now, Heath. Why does he get so much stick on here? So he's no rio ferdinand but come on look at our youth academy, we are a championship side you can't expect loads of quality players all the time. His distribution is poor anyone can see that, but how can that warrant dropping him? he can just be instructed to pass to another defender close to him or hoof it (preferably the first). But his heading is imacculate and the last game i saw him in (cant remember which it was now, ipswich maybe?) his tackles were also spot on. How will he get experienced if he's just knocked and dropped out the team? I agree he would struggle in the premiership but at this level, except his own goal, i can hardly remember anything thats made him as bad as some make out, a case of band wagon jumping? From what i've seen from the others thus far, except an improving dublin he is by far more consistent. The thing is on here most of the arguments against him have been on the lines of his passing....he's a defender not a midfielder! finished
kerryh Posted 26 December 2004 Posted 26 December 2004 Heath deserves a chance, he doesn't even make the bench at the moment, which in my opinion is crazy, he's a good player who I just hope doesn't rot in the reserves. Williams is behind Gemmill - What happened to Craig Levein fielding a younger team? I'm getting a little worried by recent performances.
Scow Posted 26 December 2004 Posted 26 December 2004 It's not just his (extremely woeful) passing, it's his general play which puts us in to trouble. He has shocking positional sense for a defender and his heading is very wayward. He's also very quiet and gets bullied far too easily by opposition strikers, and defenders shouldn't be like that. He looks better alongside Keown, but ultimately I don't think he's good enough in a lot of areas. As for Williams, I can't understand why he's not been given a chance. Apparently Levein doesn't think he's tough enough, but then plays Scott Gemmill. Williams is just what we need at the minute, someone who can get forward from midfield and make things happen. However, to get the best out of him, he needs a decent midfielder alongside him - Step forward Stephen Dawson, a midfielder with a bit of pace, energy, bite and work rate - A much better option than Nalis and Gudjonsson at the minute.
emmalcfc Posted 26 December 2004 Posted 26 December 2004 To be totally honest, I'm not surprised Heath isn't on the bench, he's been piss poor in the reserves.
breadandcheese Posted 26 December 2004 Posted 26 December 2004 Couldn't agree more. Bring in Williams straight away for Nalis. Now put a tackler alongside him. (Maybe Dawson, haven't seen him play so can't comment) Rest Keown for Heath. Heath gets a lot of undeserved stick. He is not a bobby moore, beckenbauer, or rio. He will not dribble the ball out of defence and play a fantastic 70 yard pass. He doesn't need to. As long as he can head, tackle and clear the ball away, that is all we need. Too many times today Keown and Dublin allowed the ball to bounce (whether it be a long ball to Rotherham's front men or a dangerous ball into the box). This should never be allowed to happen as a defender. If Heath stops this happening, then great. We all know he can hoof the ball clear to safety so thats not an issue. He also knows his position is under threat, so if Levein tells him to play a simple pass to another defender or midfielder, he probably will, or learn to fairly quickly. You can teach a monkey tricks.
Benji Posted 26 December 2004 Author Posted 26 December 2004 maybe its something to do with levein telling him he wasn't good enough and that he wouldn't get in the squad. if ur going to talk about reserves, was benji not putting in good performances? but then from the sounds of it today was truely shocking?
Sparky Posted 26 December 2004 Posted 26 December 2004 i think heath is 1 of the worst players ever to wear the blue shirt , he cant pass tackle head and hasnt got pace . williams for nalis please
emmalcfc Posted 26 December 2004 Posted 26 December 2004 Benji's performances were allright in the reserves. But if you see how Heath plays in them, no way would you want to put him in for a match in the league.
Cobbo Posted 26 December 2004 Posted 26 December 2004 maybe its something to do with levein telling him he wasn't good enough and that he wouldn't get in the squad.if ur going to talk about reserves, was benji not putting in good performances? but then from the sounds of it today was truely shocking? 49657[/snapback] Benji was playing out of position, CL has said he was brought in on the right to try and attack the far post... As for Williams and Heath, I would give Williams a go alongside Joey or Dawson. He did start off crap this season, but vs Plymouth he seemed to have come on loads and played well. But Heath is a bad footballer. Not just with the ball, but without it. He has no pace and does not make up for this with strength or positional sense as Elliott and Taggart did. For his height he is weak in the air. I would prefer to have Dabizas in the team to Heath.
Benji Posted 26 December 2004 Author Posted 26 December 2004 Benji's performances were allright in the reserves. But if you see how Heath plays in them, no way would you want to put him in for a match in the league. 49661[/snapback] the thing is though emma, i can't see why he's there in the first place when he was dropped he was playing the best he had all seaosn in my opinion, i really don't think, in comparison with the other defenders at this club, he warranted being dropped in the first place!
Benji Posted 26 December 2004 Author Posted 26 December 2004 maybe its something to do with levein telling him he wasn't good enough and that he wouldn't get in the squad.if ur going to talk about reserves, was benji not putting in good performances? but then from the sounds of it today was truely shocking? 49657[/snapback] Benji was playing out of position, CL has said he was brought in on the right to try and attack the far post... As for Williams and Heath, I would give Williams a go alongside Joey or Dawson. He did start off crap this season, but vs Plymouth he seemed to have come on loads and played well. But Heath is a bad footballer. Not just with the ball, but without it. He has no pace and does not make up for this with strength or positional sense as Elliott and Taggart did. For his height he is weak in the air. I would prefer to have Dabizas in the team to Heath. 49662[/snapback] we've already proved numerous times we can't cope with set pieces at the minute....so you want a defender in that dives into people giving away silly free-kicks?
kerryh Posted 26 December 2004 Posted 26 December 2004 I think you are all making Heath out to be far worse than he actually is. Relatively speaking he is one of our better hopes this season - the combination that CL keeps playing is obviously failing and I feel the boy deserves a chance - and hopefully shut some of you up!
Cobbo Posted 26 December 2004 Posted 26 December 2004 maybe its something to do with levein telling him he wasn't good enough and that he wouldn't get in the squad.if ur going to talk about reserves, was benji not putting in good performances? but then from the sounds of it today was truely shocking? 49657[/snapback] Benji was playing out of position, CL has said he was brought in on the right to try and attack the far post... As for Williams and Heath, I would give Williams a go alongside Joey or Dawson. He did start off crap this season, but vs Plymouth he seemed to have come on loads and played well. But Heath is a bad footballer. Not just with the ball, but without it. He has no pace and does not make up for this with strength or positional sense as Elliott and Taggart did. For his height he is weak in the air. I would prefer to have Dabizas in the team to Heath. 49662[/snapback] we've already proved numerous times we can't cope with set pieces at the minute....so you want a defender in that dives into people giving away silly free-kicks? 49666[/snapback] Never said I rated Dabizas, just prefer him ahead of Heath. Dabixas is a much better player when he has the likes of Dublin or Keown alongside him. He did give away silly fouls at times, but Heath gives away the ball a lot and his general defending is far worse. I honestly don't think the centre half pairing at the moment is the problem, Dublin and Keown have been decent. Far better than the other centre half pairings we have had this season.
emmalcfc Posted 26 December 2004 Posted 26 December 2004 I think you are all making Heath out to be far worse than he actually is. Relatively speaking he is one of our better hopes this season - the combination that CL keeps playing is obviously failing and I feel the boy deserves a chance - and hopefully shut some of you up! 49668[/snapback] Well if he can come in and put some great performances in, I'll gladly shut up
Benji Posted 26 December 2004 Author Posted 26 December 2004 maybe its something to do with levein telling him he wasn't good enough and that he wouldn't get in the squad.if ur going to talk about reserves, was benji not putting in good performances? but then from the sounds of it today was truely shocking? 49657[/snapback] Benji was playing out of position, CL has said he was brought in on the right to try and attack the far post... As for Williams and Heath, I would give Williams a go alongside Joey or Dawson. He did start off crap this season, but vs Plymouth he seemed to have come on loads and played well. But Heath is a bad footballer. Not just with the ball, but without it. He has no pace and does not make up for this with strength or positional sense as Elliott and Taggart did. For his height he is weak in the air. I would prefer to have Dabizas in the team to Heath. 49662[/snapback] we've already proved numerous times we can't cope with set pieces at the minute....so you want a defender in that dives into people giving away silly free-kicks? 49666[/snapback] Never said I rated Dabizas, just prefer him ahead of Heath. Dabixas is a much better player when he has the likes of Dublin or Keown alongside him. He did give away silly fouls at times, but Heath gives away the ball a lot and his general defending is far worse. I honestly don't think the centre half pairing at the moment is the problem, Dublin and Keown have been decent. Far better than the other centre half pairings we have had this season. 49670[/snapback] the part about heath giving away the ball though is what i and breadandcheese were touching on.... heath is under pressure now and looks like he doesnt have a future at this club. if he got instructed to play short he wud do so, when he was playing micky came under stick for hoofing it so i wudnt be surprised if he was told to play the ball around if he got the chance. still, people see the game differently
Anish Posted 26 December 2004 Posted 26 December 2004 I think Heath is a decent enough centreback for this league. He was playing well before he was dropped and I think he could have done just as well as Dublin has done in defence since. He isn't a good passer but I do think he's strong in the air and win a lot of headers. He's scored 3 goals from defence, that record in itself is excellent. That makes him our joint 2nd top goalscorer and he's a defencers. Williams HAS TO play now. We are woeful in midfield again and I cannot see how Gemmill is a better player than Williams. This situation is getting beyond a joke - Gemmill's contract must not be extended any further otherwise I will begin to question Levein.
PompeyFox Posted 26 December 2004 Posted 26 December 2004 Matt Heath has been dropped for being caught out playing cards till 5am a few times. Levin wont stand for this. Tommy Wright has been told he is not good enough, his uncle told me when i tiled his kitchen floor the other week.
breadandcheese Posted 26 December 2004 Posted 26 December 2004 Matt Heath has been dropped for being caught out playing cards till 5am a few times. Levin wont stand for this. Tommy Wright has been told he is not good enough, his uncle told me when i tiled his kitchen floor the other week. 49686[/snapback] If this is right about Heath, then I take back what I said about playing him. Discipline and focus are vital. I remember reading a report when Mourinho arrived at Chelsea. In it, it said how he expected players to attempt to reach their potential. Every moment should be spent attempting to be the best. Looking after themselves and focusing on winning competitions. This is the right attitude and shows how the expectations of professionalism can breed improved performances. Playing cards til 5 in the morning, the night before a match is not the right attitude, and I applaud Levein for cracking down on indiscipline. Of course this is only on the basis that Heath actually did this.
Little Nicky Posted 27 December 2004 Posted 27 December 2004 Its hearsay though you can't base an argument on something that 'someone past on to you' Heath, he is a decent defender, bad with parts of his play, but all in all a decent lad in this division, for flip's sake he's scored three goals! Hello thats as many as Connolly , and even if this is true, surely he's learnt his lesson now, and should be drafted back in, or levein is just cutting off his nose to spite his own face! Williams I believe is truely a player that can hack it in this league, he showed that against Plymouth but hasn't been given long enough since, give the young Scot a chance Levein, he may not be the most eperienced player but he's got to be better than a verrrry substandard of late WILLY LILLY. Youth is severly lacking in this team, get the young lads out there, even Tommy Wright, he is the next Rooney compared with Scowcroft's work ethics, and as with Heath he's a pretty local lad who will play his socks off with the passion for the club THATS WHAT WE NEED!
Cobbo Posted 27 December 2004 Posted 27 December 2004 Heath certainly shouldn't be judged on goals scored.
Scow Posted 27 December 2004 Posted 27 December 2004 Heath certainly shouldn't be judged on goals scored. 49698[/snapback] Exactly, he is primarily a defender, and not a very good one at that.
Craig Posted 27 December 2004 Posted 27 December 2004 Lets play Heath up-front then 49705[/snapback] Lets not
MON Posted 27 December 2004 Posted 27 December 2004 Lets play Heath up-front then 49705[/snapback] Lets not 49722[/snapback] It was a joke Would do better then Scowy if he did though
Craig Posted 27 December 2004 Posted 27 December 2004 Lets play Heath up-front then 49705[/snapback] Lets not 49722[/snapback] It was a joke Would do better then Scowy if he did though 49725[/snapback] I know it was, hence the wink
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